When Does Winning Become Important?

[GOINGDEEP]

If I'm not playing to win, then why am I even playing? That goes for card games, board games, video games, horseshoes, 1v1 basketball in the driveway, HS sports, competitive independent sports, etc. The whole point in any competition, where you have one or more competitors, is to take your skills and abilities and put them up against other's skills and abilities. The measurement of that contest is either a win, loose, draw.

Is winning life or death? Of course not, but for some reason I always feel better after a win, and feel like a hangover after a loss.

Do young kids know the effects of winning? Heck yeah they do. It's a vibe. They might not "feel it" the first game, might not feel it the first year, but they learn the difference in emotions of other players-parents-fans-coaches very fast between victory and defeat.

 

[dbronstein]

There is a big diffearance in playing to win and coaching to win at all costs.

I think the players on the field should always be playing to win, but all teams have different development goals.

This. I expect everyone on the field to do everything they can (within the rules, of course) to try to win. But as a rec coach, I am not always coaching to win. I give every player pretty much equal playing time, so the best players sit out as much as the weakest ones. I sometimes put players in positions that they aren't good at to give them experience, or just reward them for working hard. I mix up the batting order so weaker hitters can get as many at-bats as the stronger hitters. But this is rec and my goal is to develop the players.

If I was coaching competitve or travel ball, I would coach much differently.

 

[softball_mom#7]

Winning matters to anyone who is competitive. I remember when our DD played 8U rec and lost. The coach was conducting his post game talk while a mom is handing out cookies and juice boxes; our DD says, "No thank you". The mom looked confused and said to her, "Oh honey, it's just a game". My DD looked up at her and said nothing because the look on her face said it all...winning matters. She has learned as she has gotten older that being competitive against a really good team is just as important.

 

[YOCOACH]

Winning matters to anyone who is competitive. I remember when our DD played 8U rec and lost. The coach was conducting his post game talk while a mom is handing out cookies and juice boxes; our DD says, "No thank you". The mom looked confused and said to her, "Oh honey, it's just a game". My DD looked up at her and said nothing because the look on her face said it all...winning matters. She has learned as she has gotten older that being competitive against a really good team is just as important.

I was just going to say something very similar. Depending upon the individual player, winning becomes important the same age that losing does. For some it may be very early in life and for others it may just never happen. My DD absolutely hated to lose since she played 8u rec as well. However, as she has matured, she has realized that as long as she continues to practice hard and improve her skills, left it all on the field and played her hardest every pitch, play, at bat of every inning of every game, then she could hold her head high knowing that there was nothing else she could do to contribute to the teams success.

 

[Anthony Vertuccio]

I know softball players that have T-Shirts that read 10-0 Undefeated at ____________Middle School 20____. Awesome for them. Then at the JV Level they lose..why? Because when a bunt was needed to move a runner or get on base they didn't know how to do it. Because when they had to slide to avoid being tagged out they couldn't. So when they get to Varsity they now know the skills after teaching them but they aren't great at the skills so they don't win much their. My point is MS is for learning...JV is for even more learning and hopefully starting to win. Varsity is for winning and hopefully the whole program gets the credit if the Varsity coach is worth their salt!

 

[Rocketech1]

I know softball players that have T-Shirts that read 10-0 Undefeated at ____________Middle School 20____. Awesome for them. Then at the JV Level they lose..why? Because when a bunt was needed to move a runner or get on base they didn't know how to do it. Because when they had to slide to avoid being tagged out they couldn't. So when they get to Varsity they now know the skills after teaching them but they aren't great at the skills so they don't win much their. My point is MS is for learning...JV is for even more learning and hopefully starting to win. Varsity is for winning and hopefully the whole program gets the credit if the Varsity coach is worth their salt!

Can't you do both at the same time? Work on softball skills and play competitive games to win them? Don't necessarily think the two goals are mutually exclusive.

 

[softball_mom#7]

I tell my daughter all the time to show empathy to those that are struggling because we don't always see the truth of what their lives are like outside softball. Our DD is competitive by nature in everything she does and has been from a young age. This is not entirely a good thing, but helps in certain aspects of her life. We routinely have talks about how her goals could be very different from her teammates and how she needs to respect those differences. It really is a fine balance. Maybe it is genetics, or mimicking her dad and I (great point, btw) as we are competitive people BUT we emphasize to her that we will love her no matter what her performance is on the field; it's not conditional. We love watching her play. Being competitive doesn't mean you win at everything you try, but that fire inside you, the want to win to be the best you can will help you push beyond what your brain thinks you are physically capable of.

Anthony Vertuccio, I'll have to start a whole other thread later today to get into the JV is for learning Varsity is for winners. Because I am sure it will derail this thread.

 

[Strike2]

This is an interesting topic for me today. I just finished the toughest rec season I have ever coached, and likely my last. It was my DD's last year as 10U and it is clear to me that she has outgrown rec so we will be moving on. I love the developmental aspect of it and I absolutely love working with SOME of the girls that I get to work with, but the stress of dealing with the other families that flat out don't care has just become too much of a burden to handle anymore. We lost every game this season. Our league has a 5 run per inning limit and my DD and I were talking about the season before the game. She told me she wanted to catch since it was the last game but she said that she would understand if I wanted her to play third if it would help the team more. I told her that it wouldn't matter since we both already knew what the score book would look like after the game was over. I can look at the runs scored in every inning of my games this season and tell you which kids batted in those innings. Our games never last more than 3 innings and we bat all 12 kids so our scores always go 5-2-4, 5-5-1, 3-5-3, etc. I have 6 girls that have improved over the season and 6 kids that have somehow gotten worse than they were when we started. It is clear that their parents expected me to teach them to play softball and make them better, unfortunately, they didn't bring them to the 3 official practices we got to have before the season or to any of the unofficial practices that I held every Saturday on my own time that I always spend with my DD at the ball fields.

That is an incredibly long winded introduction to my point. My DD and one of my AC's DDs are really good ball players. My DD has been playing travel basketball on a team that I coach for the last 4 years where winning matters. We are seeded in the end of year tournament based on our record and we play representing our local schools so there are some pretty intense rivalries. I think this has made her far more competitive than my AC's DD even though his DD plays travel softball. His DD does not get as bothered by the lack of effort from the rec teammates as my DD. My DD has left the last 3 games red faced and on the verge of tears of anger from the lack of effort from her team. Last night she was making every throw for runners stealing bases but didn't get a single out because her teammates weren't applying tags or covering bags. She dropped one third strike and almost knocked out our F3 because she wasn't looking for the ball until it got right on her and yelled at her when she didn't touch the bag after she caught it so the runner was safe. I had to talk her down before she got into the dugout after the last inning because I was honestly afraid that she was going to get into a fight with someone. So, I do think that winning matters more to some kids than it does others and it is our job as parents and coaches to recognize that and to nurture and guide it into a productive force. The fiery teammate that cares can be a huge benefit to a team but can also be a destructive terror if pointed in the wrong direction.

I explain to my basketball team every year when we get started that every game counts but that they can't be concerned with the scoreboard during the game. I will pay attention to those things and make coaching decisions. Their job is to play ball. The same thing goes for my softball teams. I don't care what the scoreboard says. They can't change the way they play based on score. If I need to change strategy then I will, but they just have to execute what they are asked to do. There are no 4 point jump shots and there are no 6 run home runs.

Many Rec teams are like this. I coach one where about half the kids / parents care, and the other half are along for the ride. Fortunately, the ones who care include a pretty decent pitcher / catcher combo and enough to round out the infield. Typically, the motivated ones are enough to make it happen on the field, and they carry the no-loads over the finish line. I also have a few that, somehow, are no better than they were two months ago. Although there are kids who just aren't well suited physically or mentally for this game, I know I'm stating the obvious when I say that the difference is usually the parents. Those who are willing to spend time with their kids are the ones getting better. The ones who don't regularly show up to organized practice are the same people who quite obviously don't do ANYTHING with their kids themselves. Incredibly, a couple of the those player's parents have been overheard talking about how it was when they played, and then questioning techniques taught by the coaches when their kid literally can't do anything effectively. I've even had a couple of kids show up and complain about how high-70s weather is "too hot" for practice! I focus on those who are motivated and engaged, and perhaps I've been lucky, but there's always been enough to make the coaching experience worthwhile.

 

[WindmillPitcher]

You can't teach someone to be competitive, to have that killer instinct, they either have it or don't....I was seriously competitive and aggressive at 7 years old, I had friends who never achieved that....


Windmillpitchers.com is a site for pitching coaches to advertise and pitchers to find their perfect coach.

 

[Il softball fan]

AC for 10u B level team...we had several girls during the game that would come up and ask if we were winning or not. So apparently it was important to them, just not important enough for them to know the score. Interestingly enough, they would normally just ask if we were winning, and not what the score was. By first year 12u, most of them knew what the score was, and I would say that all of them knew whether we were wining or not.