USSSA vs PGF

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Jun 14, 2018
172
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I was asked the other day what the differences between USSSA and PGF. I feel PGF is a higher level of play and love the fact that you can not pay to play at "nationals". What are your thoughts?
 
Jun 12, 2015
3,848
83
It depends on where you live. When DD first entered travel ball, nobody played PGF here. I'm not even sure PGF had tournaments in our age group where I live. The A teams all played USSSA, and USA Elite Select. Several years later, even the so-called "A" USSSA tournaments hardly have any A teams, and those are all playing PGF. It seems to cycle.
 

marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am
Oct 2, 2011
4,312
113
Florida
I was asked the other day what the differences between USSSA and PGF. I feel PGF is a higher level of play and love the fact that you can not pay to play at "nationals". What are your thoughts?

My thoughts is that it is still very regional. It very much depends on the local and state directors and how they are running it in your area.

PGF definitely targets higher level of play as their entry point - they started from the elite teams and are working down and into other areas of the country with varying levels of success.

USSSA went the other way - they start at the lower levels and are working up... USA Elite has established a strong foothold in the east particularly and the competition has been strong and a legitimate option for teams not wanting to go to California. In some cases USSSA has also worked down - where in some areas lowest-level travel has almost replaced rec as the way into the sport. USSSA has a LOT of money and resources behind it so they have the ability to scale to cover the sport at all levels.

Saying you can't 'pay for play' at PGF nationals is somewhat true - however you can still 'old-boys club' your way into their nationals. I know DD's team had the opportunity to do so last season and didn't - and it isn't hard to figure out that many of the teams at PGF nationals didn't 'earn a berth' through a qualifier.

USA Elite is no different - you can get in on reputation and the want to play if you don't directly qualify. For the USSSA-branded nationals of course you qualify by having your check clear.

Here in Florida, PGF has taken over the highest level tournament scene in just two years - and USSSA has all the next level down (and a lot of the level below that) travel. The directors across the state for these orgs are all top-class and run tremendous tournaments. We also have a few other sanctions that run tournaments of varying competence (Fast Pitch Orlando runs great low-level travel tournaments weekly for example. NSA continues to exist but I am not sure why. ASA/USA softball has all but been wiped out by PGF and can't figure it out).

Teams in our org start in USSSA when young and then move up into PGF when capable - but will often still play USSSA events locally when they don't want to travel. DD's 18U team almost exclusively plays PGF but this was the exact path we followed.
 
May 7, 2015
842
93
SoCal
DD's team played in both Kansas City (USSSA Nationals) and Huntington Beach (pgf) in 12u... Both of those national tournaments are comparable in the quality of teams, however the depth is greater at PGF... In PGF there are literally no gimme's. A quick scan of the teams that do well in one usually do similarly in the other.
 
May 29, 2015
3,731
113
On a local/regional level, each organization is as good as the people who drive it locally. In most areas you are going to have one org that is strong/good, one that is mediocre, and others that are unheard of.

In the Springfield, IL area, USA has been the dominant organization (I hesitate to say well organized). USSSA started trying to poke in last year. PGF is practically unheard of around here.
 
May 24, 2013
12,461
113
So Cal
In the Springfield, IL area, USA has been the dominant organization (I hesitate to say well organized). USSSA started trying to poke in last year. PGF is practically unheard of around here.

I'm guessing that may be changing. For 2020, PGF is listing qualifiers in Peoria, IL and Crown Point, IN.
 
May 29, 2015
3,731
113
Peoria has been running PGF for a while, I believe. Since the LS facility was built anyway. The only tournament I have worked up there was a USSSA. That was back when they were still building the domes.

I would like to see something shake things up around here. As I said, USA has been the stronghold ... but the leadership around here is very old-boy network and very old-school. Things are deteriorating rapidly quality-wise. (Bloomington is the only area that seems to be holding on to their quality, but they suffer from the state of everything around them).

Like I said, USSSA is making a push, but they don’t seem very serious about it and I don’t see any local drive. I personally think it is more of an effort to expand their umpire pool (to ship out and use in other areas).

I am intrigued by PGF. Mainly, I like that they use NFHS rules and seem to be a youth-oriented organization, not an organization trying to be a national governing body slapping its name on everything from youth rec to youth elite to adult beer league slow pitch. I know a guy ... who I haven’t touched base with in a while ... 😁
 
Jun 6, 2018
305
43
Having a daughter doing PGF through the first class Dave Betcher it has been a treat in the Chicago burbs! The crown point and peoria facilities are top notch but crown point is so much better because they are not stay and pay to play like peoria. Louisville is run by the same individual (Peterson) that has all the hotels closest to the facility and gauges parents. Also they do not charge an asinine gate fee like they do in Peoria.
 

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