Umps...teach me about foul tips caught by the catcher

[BRsoftballDad]

Umps, and those with more rule book knowledge than me, I need to ask you something. A foul tip that is caught by the catcher is a live ball.....but what exactly does that mean? I'll describe a few different plays and let me know what should of or could have happened.

Play 1....Runner on 1st and steals on the pitch. Catcher catches the foul tip (ball never hits the ground). Umpire calls it a foul tip. Catcher still throws the ball to 2nd but with their rhythm messed up, the throw was late but the tag was still made. Our coach asked about the runner going back because of the foul ball but the umpire said that it was a live ball and the girl was allowed to steal. Could the tag or a throw to 1st been an out much like any other foul ball?

Play 2....Runner on 3rd and the batter attempts a squeeze bunt. The bunt is foul tipped and the catcher catches it (ball never hits the ground). The runner from 3rd slowly turns around and goes back to third. A college coach in the stands turns to me and says, "that is a live ball". I just nodded my head but what exactly does that mean? If the ball was thrown to third before the batter returned, wouldn't that be an out?

Like I said, I'm not sure what exactly that means and have never really experienced it but had 2 scenarios happen in back to back weekends.

 

[canyonjoe]

Not an ump but a true foul tip where it's just deflected straight to the C and they catch it essentially treated like a swing and a miss.

 

[CoachCeetar]

from the usasoftball.com rulebook:

a strike on the batter

E. For each foul tip. Effect: (Fast Pitch/Slow Pitch with stealing) 1 The ball remains live. 2 Runners may advance with liability to be put out. 3 The batter is out if it is the third strike.

seems pretty clear.

FOUL TIP: A batted ball that goes sharply and directly from the bat to the catcher’s hand(s) or glove/mitt and is legally caught by the catcher.

for play 1, you can't pick off the runner at first on a foul ball anyway.

Really the only thing a foul tip is is explicitly NOT a foul ball. Which is why you can strike out on it. It's acknowledging the batter made contact, but that contact is essentially meaningless.

 

[4xACharm]

Not an Ump.

Play 2. A foul ball becomes a "live ball" once it is caught in the air. This means runners can advance to the next base and need to tag up as well if they were off the base when the foul ball was caught. College coach was basically saying the kid needs to get back to base before the defense gets a double play, or catcher should have thrown down to third maybe. So yes, that would have been a second out.

 

[Sweet Lou]

As an Ump I'm pretty sure you never say "foul tip" you can make a signal with your had that the ball was tipped in case the catcher drops it in which case it becomes a foul ball, but you don't want to ring the "foul" ball bell.

 

[Comp]

You are confusing terms. A foul tip is a pitched ball that is contacted by the bat and goes sharply and directly to catchers hand or glove and is caught. It is a live ball and runners can advance at their own risk. It is not a caught fly ball so there is no need for the runner to tag up

A foul ball is exactly that, it is foul and the ball is dead nothing can happen.

Now, a tipped batted ball that has perceptible arc and is caught is treated the same as a caught fly ball. The batter would be out and runners would need to tag up or would be liable to be put out on appeal.

 

[Sparky Guy]

Had the foul tip/steal thing happen with a 10U team I was coaching. The girl beat the throw to 2nd. My parents were chirping at the umpire about the runner having to return to 1st. The umpire was trying to explain the rule to them and they were not understanding it. I had to come out of the dugout and tell them the umpire made the correct call and I will show them the rule after the game. I thanked the umpire for trying to clarify the call and let him know I would do so after the game for my parents. Once they had the rule explained to them I could see the collective light bulbs light up.

 

[canyonjoe]

Had the foul tip/steal thing happen with a 10U team I was coaching. The girl beat the throw to 2nd. My parents were chirping at the umpire about the runner having to return to 1st. The umpire was trying to explain the rule to them and they were not understanding it. I had to come out of the dugout and tell them the umpire made the correct call and I will show them the rule after the game. I thanked the umpire for trying to clarify the call and let him know I would do so after the game for my parents. Once they had the rule explained to them I could see the collective light bulbs light up.

I have a PT job at a fairly high level of baseball and some of the people who watch a lot of games get it wrong.

 

[MoJo]

I have a PT job at a fairly high level of baseball and some of the people who watch a lot of games get it wrong.

Like the announcers of all the MLB teams. The voices of MLB cant even get basic game play correct. They have made the rift between players/fans vs umps worse by amplifying situations.

 

[The Man In Blue]

You are confusing terms. A foul tip is a pitched ball that is contacted by the bat and goes sharply and directly to catchers hand or glove and is caught. It is a live ball and runners can advance at their own risk. It is not a caught fly ball so there is no need for the runner to tag up

A foul ball is exactly that, it is foul and the ball is dead nothing can happen.

Now, a tipped batted ball that has perceptible arc and is caught is treated the same as a caught fly ball. The batter would be out and runners would need to tag up or would be liable to be put out on appeal.

Comp, I was enjoying some popcorn as the "answers" were coming out of the crevices of interesting places. You jumped in too quickly! ?

For that bolded part above . . . this incorporates some baseball into the conversation, but I think it is important as the average fan attempts to transfer rules back and forth . . . KNOW YOUR CODE. Not all codes require the ball to go to the hand or mitt. Some codes allow the ball to go sharply and directly to the catcher (e.g., hits off their chest protector) and still be caught. (No, I don't agree with those codes in practice, but they exist.)

Glove/hand: USA Softball, USSSA Softball, NCAA Softball, NFHS Softball, NFHS Baseball

Catcher: OBR (Major League Baseball), NCAA Baseball