The Load

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Jan 6, 2009
6,591
113
Chehalis, Wa
Somehow I forgot to address this. Maybe bc you didn’t tag me. Here are a few of the greats showing hands first, while the shoulders stay in place. I understand why you think the shoulders move things. But as you can see the top hand is moving way before any shoulder movement has occurred. Shoulders swings are long, slow and not adjustable.

View attachment 27475

View attachment 27476

View attachment 27477

View attachment 27478
A great swing will have the shoulders still countering while the hands are attempting to come forward. Like the examples above. The hands are applying forces down, out and forward. You actually swing against your shoulders and to an extent the hips. I prefer to teach that through sequence more than resistance.

Usage of the hands is the only way to not get ‘front shoulder pull off’ which so many kids suffer from which ends careers early. That force pattern always creates the inability to hit the outside pitch and/or off speed.

You are looking at adjustments, inside pitches where the hands have to get in front of the chest. Not the same as hitting an outside pitch the other way.

377360A4-4117-402E-98D3-8836C2C043CB.gif
 
Oct 13, 2014
5,471
113
South Cali
You are looking at adjustments, inside pitches where the hands have to get in front of the chest. Not the same as hitting an outside pitch the other way.

View attachment 27479

I understand where you’re coming from. But it’s the same on an outside pitch as well. The lead arm will lay more across the chest as the adjustment. But the shoulders will remain slave to the hands. After the hands initiate. As your example shows above. Conveniently you left out the hands initial ‘planing’-‘positioning’ or force application. Here’s another outside pitch where the hands are initiating before the shoulders.

1677524327118.gif

Hands initiate things no matter where/what the pitch is.

1677524549688.gif
1677524438325.gif

The hands always bring the back side. Including the shoulders. The reason why the shoulders seem to open early is committal of the barrel is early relative to the sequential body kinematics. Bc the pitch is hit deeper. Aka less rotation

Edit: it is always optimal to have the hands/knob inline w the sternum at contact. That’s called ‘squaring’ the ball up.
 
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Jan 6, 2009
6,591
113
Chehalis, Wa
So my next question would be, shouldn’t the focus of working with hitters be on the preparation to swing? Everything leading up to launch. If they prepare to swing properly (and on time) how much time should be spent on things that occur after launch? How likely is it that if they get prepared to swing well, they put a good swing on the ball? I guess my point is that the load is the most essential component to having a good swing. Thus, this thread.

Yes loading and stretch. Then it’s like a muscle twitch trigger and it’s over.
 
Sep 22, 2021
382
43
Sioux Falls, SD
Somehow I forgot to address this. Maybe bc you didn’t tag me. Here are a few of the greats showing hands first, while the shoulders stay in place. I understand why you think the shoulders move things. But as you can see the top hand is moving way before any shoulder movement has occurred. Shoulders swings are long, slow and not adjustable.

View attachment 27475

View attachment 27476

View attachment 27477

View attachment 27478
A great swing will have the shoulders still countering while the hands are attempting to come forward. Like the examples above. The hands are applying forces down, out and forward. You actually swing against your shoulders and to an extent the hips. I prefer to teach that through sequence more than resistance.

Usage of the hands is the only way to not get ‘front shoulder pull off’ which so many kids suffer from which ends careers early. That force pattern always creates the inability to hit the outside pitch and/or off speed.
everything below is already uncoiling. The triangle stays tight on the best because the triangle is rotating from the uncoil...YES the hands take over within that split second...they don't lead, and the fastest hands usually can counter mistakes better and make the elite the best of the best. "hands certainly matter" You can say the hands assist in timing, but to say they are the gas pedal is again in my opinion, not accurate at all. You can clearly see the uncoil movement in hips, torso and shoulders, arms prior to hands taking over. The longer you can hold hands and not bleed forward, the better one handles all pitch types. In reality, it's letting the ball travel deep, mechanics and proper sequence with consistency ending in a perfect stack, that make the great hitters great.



Last shot is just extending and locking wrists, mechanic warm up / feel / personal habit to remind himself of whatever part of his swing, he's focused on.
 
Last edited:
Oct 13, 2014
5,471
113
South Cali
everything below is already uncoiling. The triangle stays tight on the best because the triangle is rotating from the uncoil...YES the hands take over within that split second...they don't lead, and the fastest hands usually can counter mistakes better and make the elite the best of the best. "hands certainly matter" You can say the hands assist in timing, but to say they are the gas pedal is again in my opinion, not accurate at all. You can clearly see the uncoil movement in hips, torso and shoulders, arms prior to hands taking over. The longer you can hold hands and not bleed forward, the better one handles all pitch types. In reality, it's letting the ball travel deep, mechanics and proper sequence with consistency ending in a perfect stack, that make the great hitters great.



Last shot is just extending and locking wrists, mechanic warm up / feel / personal habit to remind himself of whatever part of his swing, he's focused on.

Yes this has been the popular opinion for the last decade. It has produced many powerful swings w no adjustability. Main reason being the hands will always be behind rotation. Just like you described. In actuality what’s behind is the bat and the ‘timing’ of the hit tool.

What you’re actually seeing when the hips and torso are opening is stretch and torque. The actual launch of the swing incorporates the chest and hands against the shoulders and hips. A catapult of sorts. The goal is to get the sternum and hands to line up at contact which is squaring the ball. That’s just not possible w torso rotation ahead of the hands. The hands never catch up to active rotation which causes rollovers, flares, drag, casting and dumping.

Many of the well known hitting facilities have just recently discovered this and are now reporting faster, easier, consistent results.

1677549130568.gif

Do you see the hands start to come forward before the chest rotates? Just like his practice swing. And some well known hitting gurus as well as many others say the pros don’t know what they do. 😆😆😆

1677549418947.gif
 
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Sep 22, 2021
382
43
Sioux Falls, SD
Yes this has been the popular opinion for the last decade. It has produced many powerful swings w no adjustability. Main reason being the hands will always be behind rotation. Just like you described. In actuality what’s behind is the bat and the ‘timing’ of the hit tool.

What you’re actually seeing when the hips and torso are opening is stretch and torque. The actual launch of the swing incorporates the chest and hands against the shoulders and hips. A catapult of sorts. The goal is to get the sternum and hands to line up at contact which is squaring the ball. That’s just not possible w torso rotation ahead of the hands. The hands never catch up to active rotation which causes rollovers, flares, drag, casting and dumping.

Many of the well known hitting facilities have just recently discovered this and are now reporting faster, easier, consistent results.

View attachment 27486

Do you see the hands start to come forward before the chest rotates? Just like his practice swing. And some well known hitting gurus as well as many others say the pros don’t know what they do. 😆😆😆

View attachment 27487
again, shoulders start the bat movement from uncoiling, not the hands. It's a process from the time the heel slams
 
Oct 13, 2014
5,471
113
South Cali
Take a look at this dinger by CBs DD. Hands are leading things. It’s why she’s adjustable. Hands were back but quickly got infront of the COM and extended w the body on time and inline.

1677550470852.gif
 

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