The CWS shows bulletspin--rewriting the book on movement pitches

[_MIA_]

I really think you're on to something here. As much emphasis as there is on spin axes when training pitchers, why the rotation on so many pitches looks the same on TV for what they are labelling curve, rise, or screw. Drop is the one I can discern the most on TV for its rotation.

We may have been selling these pitchers short from their true ability when it could be TV's technical limitations giving us the wrong impression.

Wheels spinning backwards is due to aliasing eg undersampling. That wouldn't change the spin axis..

 

[Northball]

Wheels spinning backwards is due to aliasing eg undersampling. That wouldn't change the spin axis..

True. Wishful thinking on my part, I guess.

 

[sluggers]

So to get the ball to bullet spin in this axis are the pitchers adjusting the arm, wrist, and fingers like you have to with other new pitches OR are you just changing the way the ball is held in the hand (assuming your basic fastball was a bullet spin facing the catcher) until you see the result you want?

I think they are adjusting the finger pressure on the ball and maybe the wrist.

In case you're thinking about baseball pitches, remember that there the "arm slot" (the angle of the arm with body at release) in baseball pitching can be anything. So, a pitcher can throw sideram, underhand, overhand, etc. There are a lot more possibilities with baseball.

In softball, by rule, the arm has to be vertical at release. This makes spinning the balll much more difficult.

I'm not sure how many people have even thought about how to teach this. Again, the pitcher doesn't care how the ball moves just as long as it moves. I don't think they do a whole of analysis.

 

[Shawn]

I really think you're on to something here. As much emphasis as there is on spin axes when training pitchers, why the rotation on so many pitches looks the same on TV for what they are labelling curve, rise, or screw. Drop is the one I can discern the most on TV for its rotation.

We may have been selling these pitchers short from their true ability when it could be TV's technical limitations giving us the wrong impression.

Optical illusion.

 

[Lreeve]

Don't confuse bad hitting with good pitching.

Yes, I know this is the WCWS and these are the ladies at the top of the game so to speak. But, there is still a major difference. I cannot speak to Fouts, I don't know her. Bahl has pretty true spin, or she did when we'd play catch. It's been a minute since I've got to see her.

2021, I was with the Olympic team, in the bullpens, throwing BP, etc. etc. I can tell you that Osterman had pretty true spin. Abbott's rise was more of a sidespin, almost curveball like which really surprised me. But she had tight dropball spin, both of them did. It kinda goes to show there is another level beyond what everyone is watching on TV now. I can also tell you guys that anyone wanting to go see the Men's championships, once you separate the men from the boys, you won't see anything that is not true spin. That is the only thing that provides true movement, not angles.

How do pitches with bad spin fool these hitters? Well, again, in my experience, most teams don't do a ton of live hitting. They do all this tee work, they do front toss, etc. but not a lot of real live hitting, especially before games. This was even true with the Olympic team, they wanted NOTHING in BP that wasn't straight down the middle. Don't make it go up, don't make it drop, don't alter speeds. Kelsey Stewart was the ONLY one who said I could mix in some pitches: after 3 pitches I threw her a change up and she literally fell down swinging at it. While it provided us with comic relief, she abruptly told me no more, keep it straight. True story.

I'd be interested to know if HR's are on the rise, or the same since the pitching rule changed allowing pitchers to have 1 foot on the rubber. While I applaud the rule change and think it's a step in the right direction, I also think pitchers are using it for extra power and neglecting the work of true spin. Just my opinion.

My daughter is on a new team this year and the coach spends half the practice on live pitching. It has made a huge difference. On her last team the coach pitched all the time, not really helpful to anyone. It's just as important to learn to read a bad pitch as a good one.

 

[mmeece]

I think what so many people are missing is that not all bullet spin is created equal. While you could still call some of those pitches "bullet" spin, the tilt of the spin axis is very different between many of the pitches.

 

[jdint]

I think what so many people are missing is that not all bullet spin is created equal. While you could still call some of those pitches "bullet" spin, the tilt of the spin axis is very different between many of the pitches.

Totally agree with this, but I'm not sure what to make of this information. How can I/we incorporate this into teaching kids how to pitch? Should we be incorporating this?

I think over the years I've seen enough slow motion video(starting with the Scarborough video) to convince me that bullet spin, and tilted axis bullet spin pitching, is not just common, but effective. No clue how to teach it other than experimentation.

 

[mmeece]

Totally agree with this, but I'm not sure what to make of this information. How can I/we incorporate this into teaching kids how to pitch? Should we be incorporating this?

I think over the years I've seen enough slow motion video(starting with the Scarborough video) to convince me that bullet spin, and tilted axis bullet spin pitching, is not just common, but effective. No clue how to teach it other than experimentation.

I don't think there is really a reason to teach it on purpose, but I do think it shows us you don't have to be perfect. True spin (correct for the pitch) will always be better but you don't have to be perfect to influence pitch movement.

 

[efastball]

7 pages in and no recent video of this pitch? Did I miss it?

 

[_MIA_]

7 pages in and no recent video of this pitch? Did I miss it?

Close your eyes and visualize how a bullet spins...BAM instant video...