Team players vs. competitive players

[Eric F]

I don't see any offense in the extreme characterizations made in the OP. They are extremes for a reason, and the reality is that it will be rare for a player to be 100% one or the other.

My DD leans towards Comp, and is learning more and more all the time about improving her Team characteristics. She often beats herself up over her own mistakes, and being as good as she can be to eliminate those mistakes is one of her primary motivators. She enjoys being a significant contributor to the success of the team, and the recognition that goes with it. Her self-confidence is fed by feeling like she is good at something (I'm wired the same way). That said, she is also learning how to elevate not only her own game, but also the level of the whole team. She is realizing that she can have greater personal success if the team around her is all contributing to the success, and is starting to understand how she can have an effect in that regard.

The most heavily Comp-centric players I've come across have all been pitchers.

 

[BobInMadison]

The most heavily Comp-centric players I've come across have all been pitchers.

A pitcher HAS to be competitive, or the team loses.

That doesn't mean a pitcher can't be a team player.

 

[Eric F]

A pitcher HAS to be competitive, or the team loses.

That doesn't mean a pitcher can't be a team player.

Let me try to clarify...Of the players I have personally met who most closely match the Comp description in the OP (especially the "weaknesses"), all have been pitchers.

I'm not saying that all pitchers are like this (or even all the pitchers I have met). I'm also not saying that a pitcher can't have a balance of Team qualities. A good player - at any position - will have some aspects of both Comp and Team, as described.

 

[BobInMadison]

Sigh.
These catchers' dads just don't understand what wonderful princesses our pitcher DDs are...

 

[abbygale]

A selfless pitcher won't last long due to everybody else running roughshod over her. Doesn't mean that a pitcher can't be a team player also.

 

[quandofloo]

Sigh.
These catchers' dads just don't understand what wonderful princesses our pitcher DDs are...

I honestly think that is what helped me come to the realization that my DD was better suited for playing catcher when we were discussing the decision this year. She has ability at both and if she worked equally hard I think she could be good at either position. She doesn't have the right attitude for a pitcher though. She is very hard on herself is she doesn't perform, but she fits the "team player" characterization of this thread far better. I think the dynamic there is an accurate one. Pitchers need to have that one on one competitive mentality to attack every batter while catchers need to consider each at bat in the concept of the entire game. Granted, this is all gross generalizations, but some of it is what we look for when we are steering our kids to the positions they will excel in.

 

[BobInMadison]

A lot of girls could do both, but the mindset is different. DD 3 has even guest played -- as a catcher. She could be a really good catcher if her bran worked that way.

Some girls prefer the spotlight.
Some girls prefer the dirt.

A good team needs both.

 

[canyonjoe]

To be truly successful you need to have both. A starter that mentors the backup to get better because they want to make the team better leads to a better overall team. Look at guys like Peyton Manning who fly his receivers in the off season to his home so they can work on routes. Players who will move to another position to help the team. The kid who is willing to play out of position knowing it makes them look bad when they aren't as good a regular player in that position is very valuable.

The ones to me that are over rated are the cheer leader type or the ones who are still upset 3 hours after a loss, but won't work on anything until next practice. I want the ones who have a bad weekend hitting and are out Monday with Dad hitting. We had a tournament this year where we were down to 9 players (14U). We asked a little sister of one of the players to dress just in case. This kid was only 11 and a very small 11 year old. She found out Friday night she was going to dress and woke her dad up at 6:30 on Saturday with her bat and helmet in her hand to go pitch to him in case she got up to bat. She will be very successful.

 

[do-over]

"To win. Nothing else matters, and nothing else will do." - Sandy Koufax

"There is no I in team, but there is in win" - My daughter

 

[Strike2]

I have a theory for the gallery.

You have a continuum.

On one end, you have TEAM PLAYERS. On the other end, you have COMPETITIVE PLAYERS.

The TEAM PLAYER loves softball because she enjoys being part of the squad, being a teammate. She's unselfish. She'll play where you want her to play, take on any role. She pulls hard for her teammates. She’s not envious. She plays HARD because she doesn't want to let down their teammates and her coaches. She totally gets the idea of playing for something bigger than herself. She is a student of the game – because the game of softball is an art, and it’s interesting and fun. She might be a coach one day so she can teach others the way to play the game and recreate her fun experiences of being on a team. She can be a very good player, but it comes more from duty, loyalty, playing for the greater good, being conscientious in everything she does. She's good at a lot of things. She handles losing philosophically, and if she's sad about it, it is largely because she's sensitive to the feelings of the team as a whole and hurts when they hurt. Her weakness: She doesn't know how to win as well as the COMPETITIVE PLAYER because her mind doesn't work that way. She plays as she is coached, but doesn't think for herself on the field because she lacks that ''How do I get an edge?'' mentality that the COMPETITIVE PLAYER has. The 'relationship' is so important that she'll be unhappy on a winning team is she doesn't fit in.

The COMPETITIVE PLAYER loves softball because she wants to win. She wants to beat you. She wants to be #1. She’s all about the team – as long as she has a key role on it. If not, she’s dissatisfied. She might transfer, bolt, find something better. She is competitive and constantly thinking of ways to beat you. She is an instinctive player. She is more strategic and calculated. She is a student of the game – not because it's an art or because it's fun, but because she wants to find ways to beat you. She might be a coach one day – to feed her thirst for competition. She plays HARD because she wants to win. She might be very good, but it comes from the pure desire to be better than everybody else. She is upset at losing, might take it as a personal affront. Her weaknesses: She doesn't know how to sacrifice for the team because her mind doesn’t work that way. She'll tell the coach she'll play anywhere, but when she doesn't get the place she wanted, she's unhappy. She's so competitive that she becomes envious of teammates who are getting opportunities that she wants. She might even root against them if her favored role on the team is threatened. She often blames the coach for her status on the team.

I realize there are players who posses most of the good qualities of each. Not saying that competitive players are necessarily selfish, or that team players are necessarily not competitive.

But are these characterizations helpful? Do you see players who resemble this? The team player who could be more competitive, or the competitor who could be more team-oriented?

Where do you see your own daughter? Where could she improve?

Which player do you prefer?

An interesting theory, and I agree with most of it. Understanding that you're talking about the ends of a continuum, I would offer that the "competitive player" is probably more individually motivated to work on and perfect their individual skills. They want a key role, but don't expect it to be gifted to them. Otherwise, they'd just be a diva and a cancer. The "team player" may be good at a lot of things, but probably isn't the best at anything unless they are naturally talented. The "team player" is the glue that holds the group together and regularly contributes, but the "competitive player" is often the heavy weapon who can push the team forward on the field through their individual playing ability and the force of their personality. I don't believe that the true "competitive player" blames the coach as you describe; they will examine their own flaws and be even more motivated to improve.

Stepping away from softball for a moment, and the personal reaction people have when applying this to their own kids, apply this to the NFL. The "team player" is that back-up RB who can run the ball, block, and catch a pass. He's not as good a runner as the featured RB, but may be just as good a blocker, and might be a better receiver. He does whatever he's asked to do; like playing on special teams, where the featured back may not. People like him are vital, but you also need play-makers. The "competitive player" is the starting QB...think Brady, Manning, Rivers, and many others. This guy is fully described by your summary. He's not interested in and perhaps not capable of playing anything other than QB, but he's really good at it. He comes unglued at the thought of being pulled from a game that's not a blowout for his team, and even then, he comes out grudgingly. He may cheer on competitors at the position during a preseason game, but he's the guy, and he knows it. Off the field, he obsessively reviews his own performance. On the field, he's demanding and uncompromising, and will do whatever is necessary to drive his team forward.