Team players vs. competitive players

[CoogansBluff]

I have a theory for the gallery.

You have a continuum.

On one end, you have TEAM PLAYERS. On the other end, you have COMPETITIVE PLAYERS.

The TEAM PLAYER loves softball because she enjoys being part of the squad, being a teammate. She's unselfish. She'll play where you want her to play, take on any role. She pulls hard for her teammates. She’s not envious. She plays HARD because she doesn't want to let down their teammates and her coaches. She totally gets the idea of playing for something bigger than herself. She is a student of the game – because the game of softball is an art, and it’s interesting and fun. She might be a coach one day so she can teach others the way to play the game and recreate her fun experiences of being on a team. She can be a very good player, but it comes more from duty, loyalty, playing for the greater good, being conscientious in everything she does. She's good at a lot of things. She handles losing philosophically, and if she's sad about it, it is largely because she's sensitive to the feelings of the team as a whole and hurts when they hurt. Her weakness: She doesn't know how to win as well as the COMPETITIVE PLAYER because her mind doesn't work that way. She plays as she is coached, but doesn't think for herself on the field because she lacks that ''How do I get an edge?'' mentality that the COMPETITIVE PLAYER has. The 'relationship' is so important that she'll be unhappy on a winning team is she doesn't fit in.

The COMPETITIVE PLAYER loves softball because she wants to win. She wants to beat you. She wants to be #1. She’s all about the team – as long as she has a key role on it. If not, she’s dissatisfied. She might transfer, bolt, find something better. She is competitive and constantly thinking of ways to beat you. She is an instinctive player. She is more strategic and calculated. She is a student of the game – not because it's an art or because it's fun, but because she wants to find ways to beat you. She might be a coach one day – to feed her thirst for competition. She plays HARD because she wants to win. She might be very good, but it comes from the pure desire to be better than everybody else. She is upset at losing, might take it as a personal affront. Her weaknesses: She doesn't know how to sacrifice for the team because her mind doesn’t work that way. She'll tell the coach she'll play anywhere, but when she doesn't get the place she wanted, she's unhappy. She's so competitive that she becomes envious of teammates who are getting opportunities that she wants. She might even root against them if her favored role on the team is threatened. She often blames the coach for her status on the team.

I realize there are players who posses most of the good qualities of each. Not saying that competitive players are necessarily selfish, or that team players are necessarily not competitive.

But are these characterizations helpful? Do you see players who resemble this? The team player who could be more competitive, or the competitor who could be more team-oriented?

Where do you see your own daughter? Where could she improve?

Which player do you prefer?

 

[slingnit]

you just described the HS standout vs the TB standout. lol

 

[CoogansBluff]

you just described the HS standout vs the TB standout. lol

If so, then I didn't portray it quite the way I wanted. Both of these players might play equally hard and be equally good. Both want to win, but for different reasons.

Another way to see it -

The two things that college coaches often complain about with players is that (1) they don't know how to sacrifice for the team and (2) they don't know how to win. Seems to me that the ultra-competitive player sometimes has trouble with #1, while the team player sometimes has trouble with #2.

 

[mothgirl]

My dd is the team player, and it does have its cons! I wish she would be more competitive with her teammates, in a friendly competition kind of way. I think there is a way to be competitive while keeping your sense of humor, still being a team player and respecting your teammates. She would be a better player all around if she had more of a competitive edge!


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[CoogansBluff]

My dd is the team player, and it does have its cons! I wish she would be more competitive with her teammates, in a friendly competition kind of way. I think there is a way to be competitive while keeping your sense of humor, still being a team player and respecting your teammates. She would be a better player all around if she had more of a competitive edge!

Mine is more on team player than competitive, also.

 

[CoogansBluff]

And being a team player is not at all at odds with being competitive.

Didn't mean to say that the two were at odds. The good qualities of both can co-exist. That's a great package if they do.

If you look at the catcher for UCLA your theory is all wrong. Plus, just because you don't have the skill and experience as another player (talking HS), does not mean you want to win any less. I think some of the TB players know full well how lucky they are to have the extra experience they have. It is the competitive player's role to be a leader for those without the experience or talent, and to mentor and support the others, so the team can be the best it can (she needs someone to protect her in the lineup or catch that throw at first). Our all-state player has a full ride to D1, and she does what I just described, and she is the prime example of a competitive player.

Some kids who are not full-time softball players, but they are there to challenge themselves, and to so so with the support of a team. They may not excel or appear to be as intense, but they are competitive against their own goals, at least, and are brave to go out there day after day, knowing they might not play or they might "fail" compared to others. I would not disparage them.

Not sure what to say about this part because I didn't say that one or the other was more successful or skilled than the other.

You're a high school coach. Let me give you the example of two real-life players that I know. I might slightly fictionalize it to make a point.

Two freshman. Equally talented and skilled.

Both make JV. Both feel they should've made varsity, but are being kept down because they are freshmen. They are the best two players on JV, even amid several sophomores.

The two become friends and pair up in drills. On the outside and from a distance, they appear very similar in personality. Both quiet and workmanlike, but they are different.

One is very competitive with the other, constantly compares herself to the other. She's hyper-aware of where she bats in the lineup, her position on the field. She hates losing. She hates striking out. MShe congratulates teammates when they do well, but it's half-hearted. She wants to be the best and can't help being competitive w/ teammates. She can't get past not making varsity. Complains of politics, etc. Very smart player on the field. Very instinctual, always looking for ways to beat you, or to get an advantage. Can be hard on herself, upset when she makes a mistake, etc. Sounds like an annoying person, but in fact is polite and likeable. She's the kind of girl you want on the team, but you're afraid she won't embrace every role you might give her, might pout, might think 'me first.'

The other also believes she's underrated by the varsity brass, but hardly thinks of it. ''My time will come,'' she says. She loves the team she's on (JV). That's her buddies. Loves hanging out with them and being a part of something. She totally buys into playing for her school. She genuinely roots for her teammates, including her 'rival.' She likes to win, but doesn't brood over losses, or strikeouts, or failures. Gets over it quickly. Pleased with herself when she does well, but not hard on herself when she doesn't. It might appear that she's a free spirit who doesn't work hard, but she works just as hard as the other girl, but her motivation is not so purely competitive, but it's more about 'whatever I do, I will try my best,' more of a way of life than a will to win. She plays a bit more relaxed than the other, and that helps. But on the flipside, the lack of obsession for winning keeps her from becoming a more instinctual player - Best example I can give is base-running. More competitive players are constantly thinking of ways to take advantage of the other team, whereas those who are motivated by other things are just content to follow the rules ('don't leave base before it's left the pitcher's hand). They're rule-followers, as if you can learn the game reading from a book, rather than those who see opponents as mortal enemies and are constantly trying to scheme how to beat you.

I know that people can be the best (or worst) qualities of both. I've just noticed those two different personality types, which come in flavors, not just the way I'm describing.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Easton33]

I reject the notion that you get to define what a competitive player is and is not. Whether intentionally or not, you are degrading them and their love of the game. You imply the only reason they play softball is so they can beat someone. Referring to them as schemers is a cheap shot, they don't need to scheme to beat you. They will do it with their skills that have been developed through hard work and practice. IMO your post insults competitive players.

 

[quincy]

IMO your post insults competitive players.

If you want to read it that way it insults both.

DD is a Team player.

 

[JJsqueeze]

I have a theory for the gallery.

You have a continuum.

On one end, you have TEAM PLAYERS. On the other end, you have COMPETITIVE PLAYERS.

The TEAM PLAYER loves softball because she enjoys being part of the squad, being a teammate. She's unselfish. She'll play where you want her to play, take on any role. She pulls hard for her teammates. She’s not envious. She plays HARD because she doesn't want to let down their teammates and her coaches. She totally gets the idea of playing for something bigger than herself. She is a student of the game – because the game of softball is an art, and it’s interesting and fun. She might be a coach one day so she can teach others the way to play the game and recreate her fun experiences of being on a team. She can be a very good player, but it comes more from duty, loyalty, playing for the greater good, being conscientious in everything she does. She's good at a lot of things. She handles losing philosophically, and if she's sad about it, it is largely because she's sensitive to the feelings of the team as a whole and hurts when they hurt. Her weakness: She doesn't know how to win as well as the COMPETITIVE PLAYER because her mind doesn't work that way. She plays as she is coached, but doesn't think for herself on the field because she lacks that ''How do I get an edge?'' mentality that the COMPETITIVE PLAYER has. The 'relationship' is so important that she'll be unhappy on a winning team is she doesn't fit in.

The COMPETITIVE PLAYER loves softball because she wants to win. She wants to beat you. She wants to be #1. She’s all about the team – as long as she has a key role on it. If not, she’s dissatisfied. She might transfer, bolt, find something better. She is competitive and constantly thinking of ways to beat you. She is an instinctive player. She is more strategic and calculated. She is a student of the game – not because it's an art or because it's fun, but because she wants to find ways to beat you. She might be a coach one day – to feed her thirst for competition. She plays HARD because she wants to win. She might be very good, but it comes from the pure desire to be better than everybody else. She is upset at losing, might take it as a personal affront. Her weaknesses: She doesn't know how to sacrifice for the team because her mind doesn’t work that way. She'll tell the coach she'll play anywhere, but when she doesn't get the place she wanted, she's unhappy. She's so competitive that she becomes envious of teammates who are getting opportunities that she wants. She might even root against them if her favored role on the team is threatened. She often blames the coach for her status on the team.

I realize there are players who posses most of the good qualities of each. Not saying that competitive players are necessarily selfish, or that team players are necessarily not competitive.

But are these characterizations helpful? Do you see players who resemble this? The team player who could be more competitive, or the competitor who could be more team-oriented?

Where do you see your own daughter? Where could she improve?

Which player do you prefer?

I prefer the competitive kid as long as it does not get into diva territory and as long as her hope is to outperform others and not for them to fail so she can shine. But that being said, that kid that is team first is a pleasure to work with and have around. Our SS on little DDs team is an absolute stud, but is as humble as they come and I cannot imagine her wishing anything but the best for her teammates. I would put her in the team first category but something must be driving her because she is so good. My DDs are somewhere in the middle with the little one being on the more competitive side and the older one being more team first.

 

[JJsqueeze]

I reject the notion that you get to define what a competitive player is and is not. Whether intentionally or not, you are degrading them and their love of the game. You imply the only reason they play softball is so they can beat someone. Referring to them as schemers is a cheap shot, they don't need to scheme to beat you. They will do it with their skills that have been developed through hard work and practice. IMO your post insults competitive players.

I don't see anything insulting in his descriptions, I think he did a good job of making sure he didn't characterize the competitive kid as a little....brat.