Tag up at third

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Oct 5, 2017
191
43
Western Indiana
Sounds like the plate umpire did everything right. Plate Umpire has all tag up responsibilities at 3rd base. Base Umpire will not be looking at that so not really any reason to go for help. Especially if you said she even went back to touch 3rd after the catch was made. Seems you and all the other coaches just have a misunderstanding of the rule. The player doesnt have to be standing on the base at the time the ball first gets touched. As was said earlier, the player just needs to have touched the base at some point after the ball has been touched.
I was not clear. She was not on the base when the ball was caught or after. She left early by a couple steps base coach said tag and she went back to touch the base then left again before CF touched the ball. There is no question between all coaches on both teams she left early.

Sorry hard to explain I know. I was not sure who had responsibility for the call. He was an ego umpire so I did not question him much. There were a couple calls I wanted clarification on that he would not address.
 
Oct 5, 2017
191
43
Western Indiana
OK... 2 umpires.
The normal mechanic is that both the catch and the tag up is the Plate Umpires.
Reasoning: FU does not have tag up because they are between the runner and the ball and can't see both; so they have Batter-Runner

  • Correct mechanic with a runner on 3rd is for the Plate Umpire to move out and to the left so they have at least side vision on the runner tagging up on 3rd (or 2nd) and direct vision on the catch timing. If you can get to a direct line (easier with the runner on 2nd), do so, but make sure you have a clear view of the first action (i.e. the catch)
  • Field/Base Umpire has the Batter Runner.
It is actually not an easy thing to get ingrained as the plate umpire. Takes a few goes before you remember to do it this way. Most umpires will not move to a good position for this.

Plate still has the tag up in 3 man; but may not have catch.
Plate still has tag even if the field umpire goes out to call the catch because the runner is then behind the field umpire.
When he made the call he had not moved from behind the plate. He only stepped out to signal safe real big without hitting our catcher.
 
Oct 5, 2017
191
43
Western Indiana
Are you saying she started to run on the hit, returned to third and touched the bag then left again immediately before the fly ball was caught? Or did she return to third and touch the bag after it was caught?
She touched and left again before the catch. Base coach yelled at her a second time but realized it was too late.
 

marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am
Oct 2, 2011
4,166
113
Florida
When he made the call he had not moved from behind the plate. He only stepped out to signal safe real big without hitting our catcher.
As I said - this is typical from most umpires. It is really a taught mechanic - and most umpires don't get the opportunity to get that level of training.

It is not really totally wrong - the CATCH is the most important element you have to get right. It is just not ideal.
 
May 10, 2021
149
43
A little confused on the description of what the runner did...she left early, but then tagged up? (before the throw to third?...which is technically an appeal, not a "force", it's a live ball appeal by the fielders).

USA 2 man mechanics with BU in C with a runner on third and a fly ball, the PU has catch no catch and the tag up, with BU taking BR. But, some crews will have BU take catch/no catch to center of field - they hopefully will have pre-gamed what they are doing.
For sure great point. Pre-game might change the mechanics...I know many old timers behind the dish taking all the catch/no catch. With runner only on 3B and Bu in C this may have happenned.

Or if you are lucky like me last night you are doing 1 man mechanics.... at least the pregame goes well.
 
Jan 30, 2019
9
3
I would also like to say, because I did not see it addressed anywhere, but the out is an appeal, even though it is disguised as a force out. There are 2 different appeals live ball and dead ball. The throw to a base after a catch for a tag up is a live ball appeal (just like tagging a runner to jumped over home plate). The dead ball appeal, pending on the code, is generally done by just asking the umpire by any player or coach if they tagged up.

The part about a live ball appeal is it must be known why they are touching the base, in most cases it is known, however, there are some instances where the umpire can not say the appeal happened. For example, R2 and R3, R3 does not tag and R2 does. The throw to third is played by F5 and in course of tagging the R2 out is knocked back onto the base and touches it, or during the act of tagging R2 she incidentally contacts the base. These are not proper appeals and therefore will not get a ruling from an umpire on the tag situation. If R3 scores and R2 was the third out then a dead ball appeal may be made for the 4th out to nullify the run.

The classification of an appeal, is important because it makes it a timing play. If the same situation happened as above, but this time R3 tags up and R2 does not. If R2's appeal is proper and its the third out the run from R3 may count depending on when she crossed the plate and when the out occurred.
 
Dec 30, 2011
46
18
My question is a little off the subject. runner on third, flyball to center, ball hits fielders glove but pops out, however the fielder was able to lunge and catch the ball before it hit the ground. runner on third left bag when ball hit the glove the first time but was called out on the appeal. wrong. correct?
 

marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am
Oct 2, 2011
4,166
113
Florida
My question is a little off the subject. runner on third, flyball to center, ball hits fielders glove but pops out, however the fielder was able to lunge and catch the ball before it hit the ground. runner on third left bag when ball hit the glove the first time but was called out on the appeal. wrong. correct?

The rule is 'first contact', not completed catch. If it happened as described, then the call was incorrect. Had to be there and all that.

From experience, about 5% of non-umpires know this is the rule.

And of umpires, I am not sure it is close to 30%. It is one of those rules you learn when you look it up right after it happens in a game you are involved in.
 

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