Swingback yes or no?

[black17]

One of my DD HS teammates pitches from the glove and does not separate from the glove until her hand is at chest level. I'm not sure exactly what my DD sees when she is batting but she has mentioned to me several times that as a hitter, she has a lot more difficulty with the rhythm and lack of visibility with the ball hidden so long.

To me, that sounds like a vote for pitching from the glove.

 

[Gags]

[...] I want to make sure I teach it right from the beginning. She seems to have more control the [not invented by] Hillhouse way (glove at hip) but she just started, when she does the swing back her arm goes too far over her back and she looses the internal rotation when doing a full pitch. She has had a lot of success with dot/cover for rotation. Does being left handed make any difference? Should I have her keep trying both and see which works better for her? Sorry for all the questions, thanks in advance.

Strikethrough = doesn't matter
Green = Positive
Red = Negative

To me - looks like you answered your own question.

And to try to be more useful than sarcastic - YOU already know the answer, using the time-tested approach of "trying both and seeing which works better". Your goal now should be to help her reach that same conclusion. If she can "discover" the solution on her own (or with minimal guidance), any change she wants to make will almost always be more successful (and quicker) than a change she has to make.

 

[Hillhouse]

Thanks for the reply. Your videos have been amazing in helping me understand pitching mechanics and getting started in all of this.
I find that when my daughter tries a back swing she goes all wonky and ends up sticking her butt out trying to twist her hips too much. She pitches very hard and mostly straight from a 12:00 position, but as soon as I let her try a wind up, especially with a back swing, it goes haywire. I am thinking that pitching out of the glove keeps her more aligned.

I doubt it has to do with backswing vs. no backswing. A lot of times it has to do with over throwing. This can be done with or without the backswing. and while it's true a backswing can go back crooked, causing other issues, a lot of times it has to do with someone just over throwing and losing control that way.

As I've said, I believe more bad comes from doing a backswing than good. But that doesn't mean good pitchers don't have backswings. But, I believe in 2021 with composite bats, polycore balls, and hitters being trained better than ever before to pick pitchers, the more the ball can be hidden the better. Good coaches (and players) can pick anyone, nobody is unpickable. But a backswing is just giving it away for anyone to see. However, that's only 1 reason to not do it. And at the younger ages, picking pitchers isn't something too many are concerned about (although it's never too early for hitters to start learning this, even off something like a simple backswing). But one of the easiest traps is believing in your kid's success at young ages. Its so simple to watch your kid at 12U striking out 14 per game and thinking she's on her way to the Olympic team. But, quite often success at young ages doesn't mean success when older. It almost becomes a whole new game.

I'm sure other PC's on this site hear the same thing but, one of the most common things I hear from new student's parents is "We really liked our previous coach but, we feel we've just out grown them." Translation: What used to work isn't working anymore.

 

[Lreeve]

I doubt it has to do with backswing vs. no backswing. A lot of times it has to do with over throwing. This can be done with or without the backswing. and while it's true a backswing can go back crooked, causing other issues, a lot of times it has to do with someone just over throwing and losing control that way.

Overthrowing is one of her problems. I keep telling her to quit trying to pitch.

 

[slowcelica]

I doubt it has to do with backswing vs. no backswing. A lot of times it has to do with over throwing. This can be done with or without the backswing. and while it's true a backswing can go back crooked, causing other issues, a lot of times it has to do with someone just over throwing and losing control that way.

As I've said, I believe more bad comes from doing a backswing than good. But that doesn't mean good pitchers don't have backswings. But, I believe in 2021 with composite bats, polycore balls, and hitters being trained better than ever before to pick pitchers, the more the ball can be hidden the better. Good coaches (and players) can pick anyone, nobody is unpickable. But a backswing is just giving it away for anyone to see. However, that's only 1 reason to not do it. And at the younger ages, picking pitchers isn't something too many are concerned about (although it's never too early for hitters to start learning this, even off something like a simple backswing). But one of the easiest traps is believing in your kid's success at young ages. Its so simple to watch your kid at 12U striking out 14 per game and thinking she's on her way to the Olympic team. But, quite often success at young ages doesn't mean success when older. It almost becomes a whole new game.

I'm sure other PC's on this site hear the same thing but, one of the most common things I hear from new student's parents is "We really liked our previous coach but, we feel we've just out grown them." Translation: What used to work isn't working anymore.

Out of curiosity can you explain the other issues that a backswing can bring on?

 

[texasck1]

Overthrowing is one of her problems. I keep telling her to quit trying to pitch.

There are 2 schools of thought on this.
1 - Throw it hard and control will come
2 - Work on control and speed will come
Good Luck with that.

 

[Tango]

I doubt it has to do with backswing vs. no backswing. A lot of times it has to do with over throwing. This can be done with or without the backswing. and while it's true a backswing can go back crooked, causing other issues, a lot of times it has to do with someone just over throwing and losing control that way.

As I've said, I believe more bad comes from doing a backswing than good. But that doesn't mean good pitchers don't have backswings. But, I believe in 2021 with composite bats, polycore balls, and hitters being trained better than ever before to pick pitchers, the more the ball can be hidden the better. Good coaches (and players) can pick anyone, nobody is unpickable. But a backswing is just giving it away for anyone to see. However, that's only 1 reason to not do it. And at the younger ages, picking pitchers isn't something too many are concerned about (although it's never too early for hitters to start learning this, even off something like a simple backswing). But one of the easiest traps is believing in your kid's success at young ages. Its so simple to watch your kid at 12U striking out 14 per game and thinking she's on her way to the Olympic team. But, quite often success at young ages doesn't mean success when older. It almost becomes a whole new game.

I'm sure other PC's on this site hear the same thing but, one of the most common things I hear from new student's parents is "We really liked our previous coach but, we feel we've just out grown them." Translation: What used to work isn't working anymore.

If a kid pitches out of the glove but takes the ball out of her glove at waist level instead of 3 o’clock (chest) what would you tell them?

 

[Hillhouse]

If a kid pitches out of the glove but takes the ball out of her glove at waist level instead of 3 o’clock (chest) what would you tell them?

Hard to say without seeing her but, in most of these cases the kid has muscle memory to want to straighten or lock her elbow before going forward. This happens a lot when pitchers are trying to unlearn the backswing. The muscle memory is still there, wanting to lock that arm out. It's pretty common and a hard habit to break.

 

[Tango]

Hard to say without seeing her but, in most of these cases the kid has muscle memory to want to straighten or lock her elbow before going forward. This happens a lot when pitchers are trying to unlearn the backswing. The muscle memory is still there, wanting to lock that arm out. It's pretty common and a hard habit to break.

She has never had a backswing and if you mention it she can correct it. Seems more of a timing thing. We have been trying to get her to have the ball at 11 o'clock when her stride foot hits the ground instead of 9 o'clock.

 

[Full Count]

I have seen a significant decrease in velocity from my daughter when she drops out of her glove with a backswing instead of staying in it. She has a tendency to lock out her elbow when doing this and loses a lot of the whip.