Swingback yes or no?

[Lreeve]

My daughter has been playing catcher and LF and has decided she really wants to try pitching. She is 9. I have watched both Hillhouse and Pauly videos. Both make sense so I am not sure whether to have her arm go back or not. I want to make sure I teach it right from the beginning. She seems to have more control the Hillhouse way (glove at hip) but she just started, when she does the swing back her arm goes too far over her back and she looses the internal rotation when doing a full pitch. She has had a lot of success with dot/cover for rotation. Does being left handed make any difference? Should I have her keep trying both and see which works better for her? Sorry for all the questions, thanks in advance.

 

[tomorrow]

I think the swingback adds more variables into the pitching motion. I like the Hillhouse method personally. Odds are you will continue to try both methods, no matter what you choice today because as she grows pitching changes/evolves. Left handed does not matter.

 

[HunterMO]

I think the swingback adds more variables into the pitching motion. I like the Hillhouse method personally. Odds are you will continue to try both methods, no matter what you choice today because as she grows pitching changes/evolves. Left handed does not matter.

This is my personal opinion, but I’m a big fan of pitching out of the glove versus swing back.

There are a multitude of reasons but the biggest for DD was minimizing unnecessary movement. So when she needed to fix something it was easier to identify exactly what. She throws just as hard out of the glove as she did when throwing from swing back. Took awhile to convince her of that though…….

 

[texasck1]

My DD pitches out of the glove. At least she does today until she decides she's bored and tries something different.

Have gone from HUGE backswing to no back swing at all. Consistency is so much better by reducing the backswing. No difference in the pitch once she was used to it. I am a firm believer in the KISS method. Why waste energy with something that is unnecessary?

 

[Hillhouse]

While I understand what people are saying, I just want to make sure I'm crystal clear for anyone who might be new: there is no "Hillhouse way". I didn't invent anything. I didn't improve anything. I don't have a patent pending on anything. Whether to backswing or not is a STYLE choice and it's important to not confuse that with the absolutes someone must do. Of the pitching coaches who know and understand the difference, bad pitching coaches confuse these 2 things and they teach their own style as though it's an absolute. I am not going to tell anyone that only former pitchers make great coaches. We know that's not true. But what I can tell anyone is, I was also a 12 year old pitcher at one point. I have experimented with every wind-up you can imagine. Every grip of every pitch you can imagine. I have made every mistake that every young pitcher can possibly do when I was young.

I've written it on this site and others many times, and there are a few YouTube videos of me explaining the differences. There are 3, potentially 4 very good reasons not NOT do the backswing. And there's no real solid reason FOR doing it. Some will tell you they pitch faster doing a backswing. Ok, but is a couple MPH really worth the negatives that come along with it? For me, the answer is no. Moreover, when I get new students who do the backswing, I routinely ask them if they get sore in their shoulder. 9/10 say yes, pointing to the front of the shoulder, around the place where the pectoral muscle and shoulder meet. SORE means something usually means something is being overused. And nobody will ever convince me that a 15 year old kid should be sore from pitching. After 3 games in a day? Ok, I can see that. But when you're not using a wind-up that makes soreness happen easier and faster (which is what happens for the majority who use a backswing), it will probably take a lot more than 3 games for her shoulder to get sore.

I know, I know.. Someone is going to come on here and tell me their kid can pitch 8 games in a day and not be sore yet she uses a backswing. Congrats, your kid is the exception to the rule. Yet, the other issues that come away with doing the backswing will still be in effect. And remember people, some pitchers, like many you see on TV, have success despite what they are doing, not because of it. There's usually a significant difference.

 

[Lreeve]

While I understand what people are saying, I just want to make sure I'm crystal clear for anyone who might be new: there is no "Hillhouse way". I didn't invent anything. I didn't improve anything. I don't have a patent pending on anything. Whether to backswing or not is a STYLE choice and it's important to not confuse that with the absolutes someone must do. Of the pitching coaches who know and understand the difference, bad pitching coaches confuse these 2 things and they teach their own style as though it's an absolute. I am not going to tell anyone that only former pitchers make great coaches. We know that's not true. But what I can tell anyone is, I was also a 12 year old pitcher at one point. I have experimented with every wind-up you can imagine. Every grip of every pitch you can imagine. I have made every mistake that every young pitcher can possibly do when I was young.

I've written it on this site and others many times, and there are a few YouTube videos of me explaining the differences. There are 3, potentially 4 very good reasons not NOT do the backswing. And there's no real solid reason FOR doing it. Some will tell you they pitch faster doing a backswing. Ok, but is a couple MPH really worth the negatives that come along with it? For me, the answer is no. Moreover, when I get new students who do the backswing, I routinely ask them if they get sore in their shoulder. 9/10 say yes, pointing to the front of the shoulder, around the place where the pectoral muscle and shoulder meet. SORE means something usually means something is being overused. And nobody will ever convince me that a 15 year old kid should be sore from pitching. After 3 games in a day? Ok, I can see that. But when you're not using a wind-up that makes soreness happen easier and faster (which is what happens for the majority who use a backswing), it will probably take a lot more than 3 games for her shoulder to get sore.

I know, I know.. Someone is going to come on here and tell me their kid can pitch 8 games in a day and not be sore yet she uses a backswing. Congrats, your kid is the exception to the rule. Yet, the other issues that come away with doing the backswing will still be in effect. And remember people, some pitchers, like many you see on TV, have success despite what they are doing, not because of it. There's usually a significant difference.

Thanks for the reply. Your videos have been amazing in helping me understand pitching mechanics and getting started in all of this.
I find that when my daughter tries a back swing she goes all wonky and ends up sticking her butt out trying to twist her hips too much. She pitches very hard and mostly straight from a 12:00 position, but as soon as I let her try a wind up, especially with a back swing, it goes haywire. I am thinking that pitching out of the glove keeps her more aligned.

 

[efastball]

What do the best pitchers do? Percentages for each?

 

[wheresmycar]

Like the OP, I initially worked with my 10u to pitch out of the glove. It was difficult at first, as all of the other pitchers in our area were pulling back, but eventually I succeeded, and she pitched effectively, with good speed and control out of the glove... Only to have her first pitching instructor, unteach it on our first lesson... :-(

I took her to different instructors, all teaching a pull back, so eventually I relented, and we choose an instructor and bought in. In 16u now, and still pulling back. I agree with Hillhouse, it's mostly a style choice, and either method can be effective.

 

[HunterMO]

Thanks for the reply. Your videos have been amazing in helping me understand pitching mechanics and getting started in all of this.
I find that when my daughter tries a back swing she goes all wonky and ends up sticking her butt out trying to twist her hips too much. She pitches very hard and mostly straight from a 12:00 position, but as soon as I let her try a wind up, especially with a back swing, it goes haywire. I am thinking that pitching out of the glove keeps her more aligned.

You described the reason we moved away from the swing back. DD was getting all twisted up and out of sorts. Once we got her used to pitching out of the glove a lot of that stopped.

At younger levels we saw A LOT of swing back. Because, in my opinion, a lot of girls have seen it on TV or YouTube. It's only when pitching out of the glove is introduced to them do they see more of the girls that pitch in that style. Kind of like when you buy or are looking into a specific car right down to the color. It's only then you notice how many of it are being driven around.

As DD has gotten older and moved up in levels of play....she's noticing more girls pitching out of the glove. Or in a similar style to it.

Now the next thing you'll pay attention to is when her ball hand comes out of the glove. Have fun having that argument with her -

 

[Tango]

DD is 15 and pitches out of her glove. Started off with Hillhouse video's and she has never had a swing back. She hates swinging back. I went through Coach Pauly's courses and he prefers out of the glove style but will not force anyone to use it.