super teams? or spread thin?

[corlay]

owas curious what others experience at the 12U travel level around the country.

around here, we have pretty low population density, and a fair amount of travel clubs in the immediate region.

my DD is in her second year of 12U (shes' an '03), and has tried out for a few different clubs the past few Augusts.
it seems that every club she tries out with has very little "cuts", mostly because there arent overwhelming numbers trying out. All these teams are scrambling to fill a roster from a very finite pool of players.

so on one hand, you can say: "That's great! So many more young athletes are given the chance to develop into elite players." (which is probably the correct way to interperet this...)

on the other hand, one might say: "All these Daddy Ball fly by night teams spread the talent too thin, and our teams can't compete with the super teams outside our region." (probably not a fair statement, but local teams do seem to falter at larger tournaments. not all are one-off, daddy ball teams, but there are quite a few of those to be truthful, with a few long-standing, solid clubs with all levels including 18GOLD...)

I guess recent chatter her in the pitching forum regarding Class A, B, C teams got me thinking: are there regions of the country where certain clubs attract A talent year after year? or is it like here, where occasionally a club will land a special roster of young girls where things just "click" and they are able to compete at A level for a season, only to (at least partially) disband in the Fall, when factors like disappointing coaching, where your friends are going to play, player/parent personality incompatibilities, etc are the cause?

Sometimes, when we play larger tournaments, i look at some teams with envy and awe. who is the magician that put this group together? I say...

Im sure once we get to 14U (probably next season) things might be different. But I will say, Id much rather her play another year of 12U with a really solid club, than move up to 14U to play on a daddy ball team. I dont think that is an option, though.

 

[chrispots]

was curious what others experience at the 12U travel level around the country.

around here, we have pretty low population density, and a fair amount of travel clubs in the immediate region.

my DD is in her second year of 12U (2021), and has tried out for a few different clubs the past few Augusts.
it seems that every club she tries out with has very little "cuts", mostly because there arent overwhelming numbers trying out.

so on one hand, you can say: "That's great! So many more young athletes are given the chance to develop into elite players." (which is probably the correct way to interperet this...)

on the other hand, one might say: "All these Daddy Ball fly by night teams spread the talent too thin, and our teams can't compete with the super teams outside our region." (probably not a fair statement, but local teams do seem to falter at larger tournaments. not all are one-off, daddy ball teams, but there are quite a few of those to be truthful, with a few long-standing, solid clubs with all levels including 18GOLD...)

I guess recent chatter her in the pitching forum regarding Class A, B, C teams got me thinking: are there regions of the country where certain clubs attract A talent year after year? or is it like here, where occasionally a club will land a special roster of young girls where things just "click" and they are able to compete at A level for a season, only to (at least partially) disband in the Fall, when factors like disappointing coaching, where your friends are going to play, player/parent personality incompatibilities, etc are the cause?

Sometimes, when we play larger tournaments, i look at some teams with envy and awe. who is the magician that put this group together? I say...

Im sure once we get to 14U (probably next season) things might be different. But I will say, Id much rather her play another year of 12U with a really solid club, than move up to 14U to play on a daddy ball team. is that harsh?

My 2 cents...let DD play another year at 12U...let her dominate...she can always moonlight for a 14U team in tourneys...regardless of whether daddy is the coach (I'm a daddy coach) look for the best coach you can find...that does not mean the team that wins the most...look for teams that move like a swiss watch away from the ball, run agressively, hit their cutoffs, have decent looking swings, etc...they may lose to girls with more natural talent but that doesn't make their coach better IMO. The better coach will have a greater effect on your DD over time...

There are a few organization here in WNY that attract (or they recruit) talent...I lost 1/3 of my team after my 9U season to one of these organizations...whatever...

My team...all organic...all but 1 of my players came out of our house program...ironically, she was referred to tryout for my team from one of her friends who left me after 9U...

Lastly, lots of real thin teams here too...in the other travel league in our area, there are 26 10U teams and 28 12U teams...when you look at the travel league I'm involved with...there are 5 10U teams and 6 12U Gold teams and 10 12U Silver teams...it's not hard to figure out which league *might* have diluted talent

If I were you...I'd be going to a tourney every weekend to start scouting potential coaches\teams for next year...CP

 

[CoogansBluff]

I guess recent chatter her in the pitching forum regarding Class A, B, C teams got me thinking: are there regions of the country where certain clubs attract A talent year after year? or is it like here, where occasionally a club will land a special roster of young girls where things just "click" and they are able to compete at A level for a season, only to (at least partially) disband in the Fall, when factors like disappointing coaching, where your friends are going to play, player/parent personality incompatibilities, etc are the cause?

Great question.

My theory is that everybody who speaks on this issue will claim that their area is diluted, there are too many teams, we can't build a team around here that can compete nationally. I can't remember anyone saying otherwise about their area. If one area sends 3 teams to the round of 16 at Premier Nationals, somebody will tell you how great A and B were before Team C came along and diluted the talent so they can't win anything anymore.

 

[corlay]

she can always moonlight for a 14U team in tourneys...

that is not really something that is very common at 12U/14U around here.
tryouts happen, rosters get set, and that is what teams pretty much go with - unless a player leaves or is injured.
probably a GOOD thing. Im not so much a fan of engaging a "hired gun".

look for the best coach you can find...that does not mean the team that wins the most...The better coach will have a greater effect on your DD over time...

I agree! Completely!
I carry around a mental list of what the ranked criteria is for pursuing a spot on a specific team, and quality coaching is by far the #1 concern above all else. things like: roster, returning talent, travel distance (practices), travel distance (tourneys), tournament schedule quality, team dues, player and/or parent chemistry/compatibility, etc do factor, but quality coaching is primo.

by the way, my "Daddy Ball" comment was just playing up a stereotype. There are plenty of Dads who coach that I really respect and learn a lot from. I hope no one takes offense!
To me, "daddy ball" does not simply mean a Father who coaches a team his daughter plays for. It's more: "I'm gonna start my own team, because my kid din;t make team 'A' and I'm pissed, or I've burned so many bridges with my obnoxious behavior that no one will offer my kid a spot."

If I were you...I'd be going to a tourney every weekend to start scouting potential coaches\teams for next year...CP

well, now into our second season, Im very familiar with all our local clubs. and DD loves where she is right now. if she decides to try for 14u, it will undoubtedly be with the same organization.

I guess part of the point of this thread was, last season DD played for a solid org with a great coach, and only one returning player (the rest aged-up). we developed as a young team, with many 1st time travel players, raw at first, but by season end, hitting our stride and gelling as a unit going deep in some tournaments. Then, a coaching change, cliquey parent/family chemistry caused things to be less rosey; and when season ended and tryouts came, some stayed, some went to different 12U, and a few moved up to 14U early. I was bummed, because If we all stayed together we would have been a very solid team this season. But now, it seems like deja vu all over again (except the family chemistry on DD new team is lots better...) Not the end of the world, of course. But it would have been cool to be part of one of those powerhouse teams for a season, if the stars stayed aligned...

 

[SoAZDad]

Around here, first year teams get beat up a bit and 2nd year teams beat the opponents up more.

 

[3bmama]

Our area seems to have a lot of teams some years, not so many the next. Last year my 04 dd played with an 03 team. They moved up, I decided to keep her down so she could feel what it was like to be a dominate player. There were so many teams at 10u last year, at least in the B and C levels. When it came time to find and 04 team, it was really hard! There were only a handful of tryouts and not many of them were very close to us. We lucked into a great team with families and coaches we really enjoy, and an opportunity for my dd to be the number 1 pitcher. We haven't played a tourney yet that hasn't been open due to a lack of teams in just about every class. The 12u tourneys look to be really full.
Around here, it seems many of these teams have been together since 8u machine pitch, at least up until this point. One or two leave for soccer or whatever every year, but when tryouts are posted it is for one or two players. That's good for the team, bad for the kids who weren't here when teams were formed. Also since many of these teams seem to have been formed early I think there are talent disparities on the teams, so talent seems watered down. We Live in a metropolitan area with lots of tournaments every weekend I think it's easier to put a team together as no real travel is required. I'm guessing this evens out at about 14u. I hope it does.

 

[Jquick823]

There are some "SUPER TEAMS" around every area. Up by you there's a team called Amherst Lightning that seemed pretty good at 12U last year. I think they were 40-0 in A or something like that. They went to USSSA World Series in Salisbury MD and went undefeated and made it look easy and they beat some teams that rarely lose. Are there too many teams? I don't think so, I think there is a place for all the girls. What I will say to that is that there is some talent on the lower level teams that shouldn't be there but for many different factors won't leave.

Another issue I see here on the East is that girls start travel in there 2nd year of 12U or first year 14U. I'm lucky enough to have started my DD in 12U but she was a 2nd year 10U eligible, but a lot of people don't start until very late. Those teams that start at 8U and stay together through 18U (a core group at least) seem to end up as the "SUPER TEAMS"

 

[Phathead]

Outside of the hot beds like Ca Florida Arizona and few others, what you describe is what I would call the norm. Those teams attract top players for various obvious reasons like exposure to top colleges, excellent coaching etc. They can play yr round. So being a low level stud on a team of studs might be worth hanging around and waiting for thier chance. Places like yours and mine thay want to play more so they move to teams where they will get the playing time they want.this results in talent moving around and spread around. We have plenty of good non daddy and daddy ball coaches that put together excellant teams that with a rare exception would get killed in the big quality tourneys in the" hot bed areas" as they are called.

 

[buckeyeballer]

QUOTE=Jquick823;322249]There are some "SUPER TEAMS" around every area. Up by you there's a team called Amherst Lightning that seemed pretty good at 12U last year. I think they were 40-0 in A or something like that. They went to USSSA World Series in Salisbury MD and went undefeated and made it look easy and they beat some teams that rarely lose. Are there too many teams? I don't think so, I think there is a place for all the girls. What I will say to that is that there is some talent on the lower level teams that shouldn't be there but for many different factors won't leave.

Another issue I see here on the East is that girls start travel in there 2nd year of 12U or first year 14U. I'm lucky enough to have started my DD in 12U but she was a 2nd year 10U eligible, but a lot of people don't start until very late. Those teams that start at 8U and stay together through 18U (a core group at least) seem to end up as the "SUPER TEAMS"[/QUOTE]
Amherst lighting 01 team is very good.. We have seen them a few times over the years.Rumor has it they will be coming to Ohio a few times this summer.I would really like to see how they do with a tougher schedule.

 

[chrispots]

There are some "SUPER TEAMS" around every area. Up by you there's a team called Amherst Lightning that seemed pretty good at 12U last year. I think they were 40-0 in A or something like that. They went to USSSA World Series in Salisbury MD and went undefeated and made it look easy and they beat some teams that rarely lose.

They are my neck of the woods...Corlay is 3 hours from me...they are awesome...that team was 89-2 as a 10U team and won a bagillion tournaments...the whole organization has teams with similar success...CP