Someone explain to me the obsession with "knee drive" for hitting

[Cornbread]

Based on video evidence of most (almost every) MLB hitters, they all coil the shoulders and hips inward as they stride (or they begin with an inward coil, and hold it). And they coil them 30 to 45 degrees in.

I don’t think it’s a forced movement on their part. I think the scap is doing most of that work. If scap is working correctly the inward coil of the shoulders will occur. Don’t teach the shoulders to turn inward, teach the rear scap to pinch and maintain the pinch until the moment of Go

 

[Cornbread]

MLB hitters are not 'coiling into the hip'. They are not 'rotating the rear femur in the hip socket'. They are turning their entire torso in, then out. It's that simple. Other 'gurus' try to make this thing way too complicated.

The point of the torso coil is that it's not necessary to 'build muscles' per se. You use the leverage of the body/torso. Even the youngest/frailest/weakest kid can learn to do this and have a monumental advantage over most kids.

They are compressing their hips and trying to keep the hips skinny (coil) during the stride. The “coil” is getting into the rear glute imo and maintaining that

 

[rdbass]

 

[Cornbread]

Doesn’t look like he is trying to coil inward with his shoulders

 

[Quasimodo]

Teaching coil with the upper body can cause the problem with the front shoulder you described. If you turn the shoulders too far inward, the front shoulder will pull off the ball early to allow a hand path to the ball. The hands want an obstructed path to the ball.
I think this is also why you see some players scissor with the rear foot, torso getting out of the way due to striding closed. Forcing Inward coil of the shoulders will create an impeded path and the body will correct by getting the front shoulder out of the way.

I’ll go, rotation doesn’t drive your front shoulder off the ball. Swinging out of sequence does. That has many causes.

Agreed! Actually you made my argument for me. I agree with this. But a rigid mechanical rotation without sequence would drive your front shoulder off the plate. If the upper body does not show flexibility as in Chris Davis' swing, Javey Baez swing, etc. then the shoulder is not in sequence with the hips. But I am told there is no whip action in the swing. You can see it even in the gif offered to argue against this. The hips are opened just before the back shoulder opened, on what appears to be a center pitch. Also I tell my girls to project their full extension to where they intend to hit the ball. I guess you could say the hands rather than extension but it is the same thing. If the shoulders are opened completely pulling off the plate, then the hands could not project. They must have a path.

Teaching coil with the upper body can cause the problem with the front shoulder you described. If you turn the shoulders too far inward, the front shoulder will pull off the ball early to allow a hand path to the ball. The hands want an obstructed path to the ball.

Again agreed, though I think this can be modified by keeping the hands in front of the shoulder. When separating the hands come straight back, not turning back with the shoulder. The line of fire so to speak then stays out in front, not getting constrained by the torso being in the way. The backup SS on the national team was doing this. She was wrapping the bat around inside pitches and pulling everything foul because her hand path was circular. You get up to world class speed and the big front shoulder movement can destroy proper inside contact.

I think I know what your last point is, but you guess create a communal language, and at time I can only guess.

 

[BigSkyHi]

How I would explain the Barry Bonds dance to a youngster. Some call it style; some pre-launch movement; I prefer dance so maybe they can equate it to movement with rhythm.

1. Stride heel comes up
   1. Weight transfers to back hip (aka coil)
2. Stride foot goes forward
   1. Sit down into back hip
   2. Elbow pulls back (aka scap load)
3. Stride foot touches down
   1. In launch position

 

[Quasimodo]

trying to make them power players in your swing will cause sequence and postural issues. For me rotation is innate. Driving a knee is early rotation. Can’t drive a knee without opening to soon and being susceptible to off speed or cheating to the fast stuff and the outside is pulled off early. Postural. Loss of direction and or space.

If you can sequence the swing w a middle first launch reactively w the hands I think that leaves a player w more options and less holes. I want to see the hands and middle synced.

So where does the ‘power’ come from? GRF, hand speed and the middle of the body. I think this drill here w the right intentions creates that FEEL.


View attachment 18735

I am not sure you can see this, but indeed his knee, hips, and shoulders are firing at the same time! Good example?
In fact his hands are leading his swing. His back elbow is at slot, hands/elbow stacked at the hip, with zero rotation to that point. His chest and ideally back knee should be facing RF at this time. The other factor is that because of this miss-timing sequence his hands and bat head will create a valley in his swing, the "V" or "U" shape in the swing that places the bat head on the plane of the pitch late, and lifts it over the ball very early. His bat-head should be on the plane of the pitch behind his back leg.

 

[Quasimodo]

How I would explain the Barry Bonds dance to a youngster. Some call it style; some pre-launch movement; I prefer dance so maybe they can equate it to movement with rhythm.

1. Stride heel comes up
   1. Weight transfers to back hip (aka coil)
2. Stride foot goes forward
   1. Sit down into back hip
   2. Elbow pulls back (aka scap load)
3. Stride foot touches down
   1. In launch position

Do you know the "hip-hop" hitting drill? Your kids might love it.

 

[BigSkyHi]

Do you know the "hip-hop" hitting drill? Your kids might love it.

No - lay it on me - sounds like fun

 

[Quasimodo]

No - lay it on me - sounds like fun

* The batter stands just at the back edge of the batters box
* The first step is with the right foot forward to a normal rear foot position with toe pointed toward what would be the imagined pitcher.
* The second step is onto the left foot even with the batting tee. There is some flexion in the front knee, or bounce, but not a jump. The whole drill they try to keep the hips from too much vertical bounce. This is the point where they assume a normal stance facing home plate.

* They step back onto the rear foot, sinking into the backside, or glute.
* Forward again onto the front leg.
* Back onto the back leg, sinking into the backside
* Forward and swing.

They do this like a dance, not "Mexican jumping beans". Smooth, no real pauses. You can count, "1,2,3,4,5, FIRE!". I do not teach getting onto the back toe in rotation. I trick them into doing it. This is one drill I use. I have them stride equal to the backside of the tee, and on the last stride, really fire into a stride equal to the tee shaft and hit up the middle. As a footnote I guess you could increase it from 6 count to 8 count, etc. if you wanted to.