Should umpires signal/announce a fair ball?

[Cougars]

If you watch the process of the replay, they confirm the call on the field of fair ball. There has been plenty of debate on many other aspects of this.

I find it hard to believe, but not impossible, that he verbalized “Fair!” However, his body language and reaction AFTER his call does not indicate “I thought it was fair but goofed.”

Whatever CYA decision they came too, it's obvious the 3rd base ump thought foul ball. He basically gives up on the play and isn't watching anything until he realizes the kid is running to 3rd. Even then, you can almost see the "WTF, I better look official here" posture

I don't know the mechanics. Which ump would be responsible for watching the ball into the OF? If he thought fair, he didn't even glance into the OF. Is that the 2B umps job?

 

[EdLovrich]

Whatever CYA decision they came too, it's obvious the 3rd base ump thought foul ball. He basically gives up on the play and isn't watching anything until he realizes the kid is running to 3rd. Even then, you can almost see the "WTF, I better look official here" posture

I don't know the mechanics. Which ump would be responsible for watching the ball into the OF? If he thought fair, he didn't even glance into the OF. Is that the 2B umps job?

This is what I thought as first as well, but the base coach is reacting to SOMETHING when he just keeps waving his player around the bases, and it sure isn't an umpire saying 'FOUL'

 

[EdLovrich]

This is what I thought as first as well, but the base coach is reacting to SOMETHING when he just keeps waving his player around the bases, and it sure isn't an umpire saying 'FOUL'

When there is an umpire on the line (either side), the PU has fair foul up to but not including the base. So, a ball bounding OVER the base is the BU call, makes sense, he is a heck of a lot closer. The BU in this play doesn't HAVE to look into the OF or turn around. Where the ball lands out there makes no difference. This is a bounding ball and as long as it passes over the base, which it appears to do, but the angle is bad, then that is all he needs to see,

 

[The Man In Blue]

There is an exception to that if the ball pushes the umpire off the line. Since the BU is in motion and presumably more focused on getting out of the way, it stays with the PU.

That could be what happened, but since he made a call I’m inclined to say it was his — right or wrong.

 

[Cougars]

Doesn't the ump raising his hands kill the play though, regardless of who had the call, or what the correct call is? Could have been a ground ball up the middle, if the 3B ump raises his hands like that, isn't it dead?

You can see the kid playing 3B stops when the hands go up. I don't know about the LF?

 

[djcarter1966]

Doesn't the ump raising his hands kill the play though, regardless of who had the call, or what the correct call is? Could have been a ground ball up the middle, if the 3B ump raises his hands like that, isn't it dead?

You can see the kid playing 3B stops when the hands go up. I don't know about the LF?

Exactly, there is simply no getting around this. As the coach you have to be very specific when asking for a replay review. This just comes from years of umpiring, you want to have all call come down to an interpretation of a rule not a judgement of an umpire. I would have simply asked the home plate umpire to review whether the third base umpire raised both his hands signaling a foul ball. I would NOT have asked for a replay review of whether or not the ball was actually fair OR if the home plate umpire used a signal pointing towards the infield that it was ALL these thing are 100% irrelevant. If in fact the umpire raised both hands signaling foul THEN you must apply a rule. The rule states even if inadvertent the play is dead, at least in NHFS I assume little league as a similar rule, since they are all taken from the same basics. It is also the coaches responsibility to IMMEDIATELY file a protest, video review or not you are protesting the application of the rule NOT the call on the field or review booth.

 

[PJR202]

Exactly, there is simply no getting around this. As the coach you have to be very specific when asking for a replay review. This just comes from years of umpiring, you want to have all call come down to an interpretation of a rule not a judgement of an umpire. I would have simply asked the home plate umpire to review whether the third base umpire raised both his hands signaling a foul ball. I would NOT have asked for a replay review of whether or not the ball was actually fair OR if the home plate umpire used a signal pointing towards the infield that it was ALL these thing are 100% irrelevant. If in fact the umpire raised both hands signaling foul THEN you must apply a rule. The rule states even if inadvertent the play is dead, at least in NHFS I assume little league as a similar rule, since they are all taken from the same basics. It is also the coaches responsibility to IMMEDIATELY file a protest, video review or not you are protesting the application of the rule NOT the call on the field or review booth.

If the reply was confirmed specifically for his arm motion and everyone agreed that "yeah, he signaled foul even though it looks to have been fair," what's the next step? Take away what was a legitimate fair ball, call it foul, and send everyone back where they came from? That just feels so much more "unfair" than something like blowing a call at 1B.

 

[Cougars]

Unfortunately, "fair" probably wasn't an option once the ump made the mistake. But, you had the winning run score from first on a play that the 3B definitely quit after the "foul" signal. I haven't seen a replay that shows how the LF reacted.

 

[EdLovrich]

If the reply was confirmed specifically for his arm motion and everyone agreed that "yeah, he signaled foul even though it looks to have been fair," what's the next step? Take away what was a legitimate fair ball, call it foul, and send everyone back where they came from? That just feels so much more "unfair" than something like blowing a call at 1B.

Yep....and this is why video replay isn't always a good thing. Other than confirming that umpires are human and make mistakes, what good does video replay do in the case when a foul is overturned to a fair? Place runners where the umpires judge they would have gotten? What if the umpire judges that there would have been an out? or a DP? I think without the video replay, the Bend manager comes out and argues that the 3BU signaled foul and a dead ball. This kills the play with zero reference to the accuracy of the actual call itself.

 

[Crabby_Bob]

When there is an umpire on the line (either side), the PU has fair foul up to but not including the base. So, a ball bounding OVER the base is the BU call, makes sense, he is a heck of a lot closer. The BU in this play doesn't HAVE to look into the OF or turn around. Where the ball lands out there makes no difference. This is a bounding ball and as long as it passes over the base, which it appears to do, but the angle is bad, then that is all he needs to see,

Which code? Not all codes use this mechanic.