Should umpires signal/announce a fair ball?

[djcarter1966]

If the reply was confirmed specifically for his arm motion and everyone agreed that "yeah, he signaled foul even though it looks to have been fair," what's the next step? Take away what was a legitimate fair ball, call it foul, and send everyone back where they came from? That just feels so much more "unfair" than something like blowing a call at 1B.

NO it WAS already called foul...that is the whole point. Why do you think it is fair for the defense to give up on the play then the offense just keeps running around, think about how silly that would look if this happened on every ball called foul, that's why when an umpire calls foul the play is dead. Plus every angle I saw it looked close and I didn't see anything definitive everyone in the stadium wasn't complaining, basically only because you have a scared and confused umpire does this even happen. Most third base umpires instead of being a shrinking violet would have stepped up even louder and send the kid back to the base as soon as he was approaching third.

 

[djcarter1966]

Yep....and this is why video replay isn't always a good thing. Other than confirming that umpires are human and make mistakes, what good does video replay do in the case when a foul is overturned to a fair? Place runners where the umpires judge they would have gotten? What if the umpire judges that there would have been an out? or a DP? I think without the video replay, the Bend manager comes out and argues that the 3BU signaled foul and a dead ball. This kills the play with zero reference to the accuracy of the actual call itself.

This is exactly why you don't challenge the call of fair or foul, you go to the home plate or crew chief and get the third base umpire in there and ask only one question...did you raise your hands signaling foul ball. If he says yes, then you turn to the crew chief and say given that information what is your ruling, if he says the run scores you protest the game and you will win the protest every time because it is misapplying a rule. If he says no I didn't raise my hands you look at him and say I would like to challenge the fact that he raised his hands signaling foul...then after replay we are right back to making the correct call. The real problem here is that this rule is SO black and white I simply can not understand how at least one of the umpires didn't stand up and make the right decision, there should be zero confusion.

 

[djcarter1966]

There is an exception to that if the ball pushes the umpire off the line. Since the BU is in motion and presumably more focused on getting out of the way, it stays with the PU.

That could be what happened, but since he made a call I’m inclined to say it was his — right or wrong.

But there is no exception to an umpire putting his hands up and calling it foul, every rule set I know says even if inadvertent it becomes a dead ball.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Miscellaneous replies ... because there seem to be a lot of assertions with little support lately.

I am not aware of any rule in any rulebook that addresses an umpire error specifically. I may be wrong and would encourage citations. That's not saying they don't happen and there aren't ways of rectifying them ... that is saying there is no specific "rule" on the situation. We have mechanics, interps, etc. but no rule.

Replay review is only usable in specific instances under certain circumstances. You cannot use it for any willy-nilly thing you want, no matter how aggrieved you are/feel.

Replay reviews must also show indisputable proof to overturn a call. The replay on this play did not show anything definitive one way or the other, so the call on the field stood. There are basically three things that can happen, "The call on the field is confirmed" (meaning evidence shows it was right), "The call on the field is overturned" (meaning evidence shows it was wrong), or "The call on the field stands" (meaning there was not enough evidence wither way).

While we traditionally work under the "you can't un-ring a bell" premise for foul balls, recently it seems precedents are being set (under replay reviews) to allow for umpires to correct the call and place the runners where they believe they would have ended up. I've heard speculation (of course LL is not talking about this) that this could have been what happened.

 

[flash277]

In my first year umpiring, I was behind the plate by myself for a 10u little league game. The smallest girl on the team hit a bomb down the third base line, fair ball. I was so shocked this little kid hit it so far, I threw up my arms in surprise ( holy smokes, look at that! Kind of surprise). The only one who saw that was the opposing coach who came out to argue that I called it foul. I explained my reaction to the hit, but he kept arguing that his players were reacting to my call, when everyone in the field and the park, was looking at the ball, not me. I was kind of surprised he was the only one looking at me. Only time I ever did that, learned my lesson.

 

[Big Daddy Michigan]

Is there a video of this that I missed, or is this video discussion hypothetical?

 

[EdLovrich]

Is there a video of this that I missed, or is this video discussion hypothetical?

Post #45 this thread

 

[Big Daddy Michigan]

Post #45 this thread

Thanks