Screwball examples?

[sprtfan]

My DD decided to get serious about pitching little over 1 year ago is 14 and has a lot of catching up to do. We have fun practicing and ultimately all the really matters to me but I still want to do what I can to help her improve. We found a pitching coach a year ago that we have been working with and he was big on her learning a screwball. After reading some here, I'm not sure if it is a real popular pitch to learn but hard to stop now after putting a year of work into it.
Pitching coach told us to watch some of the 2019 PGF National Championships 18U PREMIER game on youtube. He is definitely H/E and not I/R I've been able to figure out from reading more here. The pitcher was from Athletics Mercado and she was throwing a screwball a lot. My question is she using I/R and having the ball move away or is it a true screwball? Her stride follows what my DD was being taught but the finish seems to be different.
Here is the link to the game. Should be able to see what I'm asking about during the first batter of the game I think. I'd like to see some other examples if you can share a link. Thanks

 

[sluggers]

My question is she using I/R and having the ball move away or is it a true screwball? Her stride follows what my DD was being taught but the finish seems to be different.

In 40+ years of watching softball, I have seen *ONE* true screwball thrown at game speed. (I offered a few years ago $100 to anyone who could produce a video of someone throwing a pitch with anything close to 9-3 spin.)

Anyway, this pitcher is stepping left and throwing right. She is probably illegal in NCAA pitching because she is stepping so far left. (Hannah Rogers from Florida actually forced a rule change due.) She has great control, and can move the ball left and right in 3 or 4 inch increments. Although I can't see the spin, but she is probably throwing a bullet spin pitch.

A bullet spin pitch drops less than a pitch with 12-6 spin and "rises" less than a pitch with 6-12 spin.

The way it works is that she throws her fastball with 12-6 spin, and then throws the screwball with bullet spin. So, the batter ends up missing the pitch.

 

[ArmWhip]

All decent pitchers use IR.

What kind of spin does he want your daughter to put on the ball? A 'true' screwball has the opposite spin from a curveball, has he explained that? It's basically impossible to make a ball spin like that with an underhand delivery. The closest I have seen is a drop with the spin turned enough to give it about 2 inches of break. Not worth the effort.

However it is possible to get more 'screwball' break by throwing tipped bullet spin with the proper seam orientation, is that what he wants her to do? I believe that is what you see in the game you linked to.

I am skeptical of any coach who teaches a screwball, even more so when he tries it with a pitcher with your daughter's level of experience. It's never too late to leave a bad pitching coach.

 

[Cornbread]

Not a fan of the screwball striding way open stuff. Your asking for monkey butt and no brush.

 

[sluggers]

Not a fan of the screwball striding way open stuff. Your asking for monkey butt and no brush.

Yep.

 

[Northball]

Whatever it may or may not be, 14 K's against a top caliber team is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[Cornbread]

Whatever it may or may not be, 14 K's against a top caliber team is nothing to sneeze at.

IMO when building a newer pitcher you shouldn’t start screw ball stuff. I’ve seen decent pitchers go backwards after starting to throw the screw. I’m not saying the pitch doesn’t exist. Just wouldn’t mess with it unless good mechanics are firmly engrained.

 

[sprtfan]

All decent pitchers use IR.

What kind of spin does he want your daughter to put on the ball? A 'true' screwball has the opposite spin from a curveball, has he explained that? It's basically impossible to make a ball spin like that with an underhand delivery. The closest I have seen is a drop with the spin turned enough to give it about 2 inches of break. Not worth the effort.

However it is possible to get more 'screwball' break by throwing tipped bullet spin with the proper seam orientation, is that what he wants her to do? I believe that is what you see in the game you linked to.

I am skeptical of any coach who teaches a screwball, even more so when he tries it with a pitcher with your daughter's level of experience. It's never too late to leave a bad pitching coach.

His goal was basically bullet spin I believe. In practice, she has a little tilt to it. When catching, I have a hard time telling if it is just an angle change or if it may "drift" a little. We are still working on it but have asked to start working on a drop more instead.

 

[sluggers]

His goal was basically bullet spin I believe. In practice, she has a little tilt to it. When catching, I have a hard time telling if it is just an angle change or if it may "drift" a little. We are still working on it but have asked to start working on a drop more instead.

The guy who knows this stuff is @riseball.

 

[Hillhouse]

My DD decided to get serious about pitching little over 1 year ago is 14 and has a lot of catching up to do. We have fun practicing and ultimately all the really matters to me but I still want to do what I can to help her improve. We found a pitching coach a year ago that we have been working with and he was big on her learning a screwball. After reading some here, I'm not sure if it is a real popular pitch to learn but hard to stop now after putting a year of work into it.
Pitching coach told us to watch some of the 2019 PGF National Championships 18U PREMIER game on youtube. He is definitely H/E and not I/R I've been able to figure out from reading more here. The pitcher was from Athletics Mercado and she was throwing a screwball a lot. My question is she using I/R and having the ball move away or is it a true screwball? Her stride follows what my DD was being taught but the finish seems to be different.
Here is the link to the game. Should be able to see what I'm asking about during the first batter of the game I think. I'd like to see some other examples if you can share a link. Thanks

sprtfan, I can tell you without any hesitation and I'm 1000000000% positive that Allison Royalty (who's video you referenced here) does not throw a screwball. She was throwing a "low rise". But because the camera angle was not behind her, it gave the impression that she was angling her pitch or giving it the "screw" factor. Amanda Freed made me throw up in my mouth when she mentioned screwball in the broadcast. Apparently, after the post game interview, Amanda Freed asked Allison about her screwball and was told, in no uncertain terms, it's not a screwball.

You may be asking.... Bill, how can you be so sure this pitcher isn't throwing a screwball? Well, from 2010-2018 I would go to Dallas on a monthly basis and do pitching lessons. Allison was my student since 2014. I am the only pitching coach she's worked with since then.

This is not an Amanda Freed issue, this is an ESPN issue with their commentary teams. Between this game and Michele Smith trying to sensationalize every pitcher on TV, it's no wonder that so many young pitchers think this crap is real. No matter who's pitching, anything thrown high is a rise. Anything low is a drop, anything inside is a screwball, etc.etc. when Michele Smith is talking. This is, of course, regardless of how the ball is spinning or if it actually moves. They go by where it ends up.

Bill