Pushing the envelope for leaving early

[Rolling Hard]

I don't like teaching cheating but at the same time agree if you are not getting called out for leaving early every so often then you're probably late.

Do you start with one foot on base and other behind and time the start? Or do you start with one foot on the bag and the other out in front towards 2nd base? More likely to mistakenly get called out for leaving early if using first method. Ump sees early movement and figures runner left early. Not a big fan of the rocking with the pitcher either. Do track athletes rock? Why don't runners get down in a sprinter's stance?

 

[El Oso]

Not a big fan of the rocking with the pitcher either. Do track athletes rock?

Track sprinters have no visual idea when the gun is going to sound off, that's why they don't rock. They could get caught in between. If you can visually anticipate when you are supposed to take off like a baserunner can, rocking makes a lot sense.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

The best thing i know to share is for the defense to learn to be as efficient as they can be themselves!

And that I have seen in games before. Our catcher sharing with our team, "their runners are leaving early and the umpires are not enforcing it". Everybody understands the deal for that game. Nothing else needs to be said.

 

[Rolling Hard]

Track sprinters have no visual idea when the gun is going to sound off, that's why they don't rock. They could get caught in between. If you can visually anticipate when you are supposed to take off like a baserunner can, rocking makes a lot sense.

That makes sense. How do you like the feet to be placed? Also have you ever tried timing based off when the pitchers heel comes off the rubber?

 

[Beeg]

DD also plays tennis. In tennis, on a serve, if the player touches the baseline before hitting the ball, that's a foot fault.
Yet, when you play at USTA beginner levels, there is no refs. The players call ins and outs and fouls on their own.
In one match, DD's opponent had a great serve, but on each serve, she'd take a big step over the baseline before she hit the ball.
Unfortunately, DD was watching the ball to make sure she could return it. She had no time to watch the foot of the opponent.
DD ended up losing on a tie-breaker.

I asked the coach running that tournament. He agreed it was foot fault, but he didn't say anything. Turned out she was his student.
She ended up winning that tournament. His other student also kept calling opponents' ball out when ball was clearly in, or calling her ball in when it was out. We never go back to that tournament site again (with USTA, you get to sign up for whichever location you want to play.)

The question is, if one cheats and no one calls it, is it really cheating?

You be the judge. I told DD to do the right thing, and that I feel sorry for this other player. Once she starts playing at a higher level with real refs, she'd have a hard time fixing her serve b/c she's probably been doing that for years.

 

[inumpire]

I agree with what you teach @Northball. Leaving early and taking advantage of bad umpires or 1 or 2 man umpire crews is potentially helping your team win, but I don’t agree with the message it sends the girls. It’s ok to cheat as long as you don’t get caught. There is a big difference ethically with teaching the girls to leave on time and have them occasionally be early and intentionally teaching to leave early. IMO.

Why do you have say the umpires are bad? Coaches who teach kids to leave early are bad. And you wonder why there is a shortage of umpires? Verbal abuse is the number one thing that make an umpire quit. And it isn’t enough that you say it on the field, you have to post it here also. We need more coaches like you in the game.

 

[Towny9]

Why do you have say the umpires are bad? Coaches who teach kids to leave early are bad. And you wonder why there is a shortage of umpires? Verbal abuse is the number one thing that make an umpire quit. And it isn’t enough that you say it on the field, you have to post it here also. We need more coaches like you in the game.

I’m well aware of the umpire shortage and how they are treated. I’m a HS athletic director. I made a statement that I don’t agree with teaching kids to leave early just because the umpire doesn’t call it. Maybe “bad” was a poor choice of words - I could have said inexperienced instead. You made a lot of assumptions about me though and insulted me directly - more telling of your character than mine.

 

[kennykozman!!]

"I've been leaving early the entire tournament and you are the first to call me out." This was the conversation after the 1st inning of this teams 6th game of the weekend. 10 minutes before her HC was starring in a scene on the diamond arguing with me about something he teaches his players to do.

So if I was behind the plate in the championship game and I decided to squeeze his pitcher because he teaches his players to cheat is that wrong? Or is that part of the game? Just asking because you know nobody is gonna call me on it or is watching......it's just a tight zone today.

This is, of course, hypothetical.

Would you feel bad for the HC or his team? Or did he get what was coming to him?

 

[GunnerShotgun]

I don't see coaches "teaching" players to leave early. Most of the conversations are about timing and not being late.

In the rare game that you play with one umpire I don't see players leaving super early as the plate umpire can still monitor this to some extent. If both teams are leaving a step early than no advantage gained and that's just how it's going to be for that game.

The rules of the game are whatever the umpire(s) and to some extent the tournament director say they are.

 

[JLI2010]

We teach our kids to start moving when the back heel moves after the stride. This gets them pretty close to on time but sometimes they will be early and sometimes late. All we are trying to teach is not to time the ball coming out of her hand which ensures you will be late. I think the idea of telling kids, especially young kids to be early is mostly to prevent them from being very late.