Pushing the envelope for leaving early

[El Oso]

Are you saying that as a teammate you don't have an obligation to try as hard as you can and do everything you can to win the contest?

That's exactly what I'm saying. There are lines that shouldn't be crossed. I prefer integrity in my sports and my coaches. I wouldn't sacrifice nor ask a player to sacrifice their integrity in order to win a stupid softball game. Life is bigger than softball.


Integrity is what you do when no one is watching; (this includes umpires gunner). It's doing the right thing all the time, even when it may work to your disadvantage.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

Integrity is what you do when no one is watching; (this includes umpires gunner). It's doing the right thing all the time, even when it may work to your disadvantage.

And this is why we have referees, umpires, and officials in games to adjudicate. This isn't youth tennis where you are calling your own shots.

Again can you name the last time a runner left early, was called safe by the umpire and the runner said "no thanks I left early" (and left the field of play). You can't.

It's not cheating as long as your coach doesn't ask you to do it or you aren't caught by the umpire? It's preposterous that the act itself is not cheating, it is the intent of the base runner? As long as you are of pure heart when you leave early it's OK?

 

[El Oso]

And this is why we have referees, umpires, and officials in games to adjudicate.

You keep glossing over this point --

Integrity is what you do when no one is watching



And you completely lost me on the rest of your post. You seem completely confused about my post if what you gathered is that I think it's not cheating if your coach doesn't ask you to do it or if you aren't caught. Amazing that is your takeaway because my post clearly spells out that my feelings are the exact opposite. Absolutely amazing.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

You keep glossing over this point --

Integrity is what you do when no one is watching

Not glossing over, I just don't see that when I watch officiated sports.

An example is in basketball or football where the referees "swallow the whistle" and let them play. You see this a lot during the playoffs. My position is that you owe it to your teammates to make sufficient effort to achieve victory. While "holding" may technically be a foul and against the rules if the referees are letting you "play" then you are obligated to adapt.

Your position is I can NEVER "hold", leave the base early, phantom touch 2B on the double play, as it's cheating. Integrity!

I see teams play sports every weekend adapting to their environment and situation and I don't hear anyone shouting about integrity. In most cases both teams are playing in the same situation and environment so there is no benefit to either team.

I have never seen a player, coach, or parent pull their player off the field for leaving a base early but I will keep looking.

 

[Jdeesso]

Was at a facility recently watching a team work on base running/getting off first base and heard the coach say he would be more upset if his girls got caught stealing as opposed to getting called out for leaving early.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[El Oso]

Not glossing over, I just don't see that when I watch officiated sports.

An example is in basketball or football where the referees "swallow the whistle" and let them play. You see this a lot during the playoffs. My position is that you owe it to your teammates to make sufficient effort to achieve victory. While "holding" may technically be a foul and against the rules if the referees are letting you "play" then you are obligated to adapt.

Your position is I can NEVER "hold", leave the base early, phantom touch 2B on the double play, as it's cheating. Integrity!

I see teams play sports every weekend adapting to their environment and situation and I don't hear anyone shouting about integrity. In most cases both teams are playing in the same situation and environment so there is no benefit to either team.

I have never seen a player, coach, or parent pull their player off the field for leaving a base early but I will keep looking.

You're moving the goalposts. The discussion was about coaching girls to intentionally leave early in order to gain an advantage. Now you're comparing that to someone making a snap decision to do something instinctually during the heat of the moment of a football game. "That's preposterous" as you like to say and about as bad of an analogy as I've seen in a long long time. This is a sign that a discussion has officially jumped the shark so I'm out.

 

[canyonjoe]

I don't have a problem with trying to leave slightly early until you get called on it during normal games. I would rather leave a tick early versus a tick late. However, I do think it's wrong to go even earlier just because there is only one ump.

Gaining an advantage is part of the game up to a point. If the PU is calling pitches 2 inches off he plate you try and go to 3 and see if you get the call. I don't see that as cheating.

 

[ArmWhip]

Several years ago I taped a US vs Japan game. The camera angle from CF was low and it allowed me to watch the runners leave 2nd base and time it with the pitcher's release. In slow motion it was unbelievable, the Japanese players were often 2 steps off at release. One was called for leaving early but not until about the 5th inning. Meanwhile some of the US players were really late in leaving, one was Michelle Moultrie, a supposed base stealer. Based on what I saw I had our players team up and use their phones to video one another leaving the base, using our pitcher for the exercise. However it didn't transfer to our games, our kids always left late, they were afraid to get called out.

 

[radness]

Never got called out for leaving a base early.
Yet have recorded many stolen bases.

Both results May Simply Be inconsistency in umpiring efficiency.
OR
Great timing and player efficiency!

The best thing i know to share is for the defense to learn to be as efficient as they can be themselves!

 

[radness]

Will say of the players I know on the field and shared time with being on the same team,
never was there one
who was okay getting called out leaving a base early...
It is like committing an error without the ball.