I wanted to get some insight from the experts on pitching with a weighted ball in the off season to increase speed. I will tell you that 13 yr old DD goes to an instructor that stresses speed, we have thrown the weighted ball for the last three off seasons and have seen steady improvement in speed. We will not touch a regular ball until 2 or 3 weeks before travel/school ball starts. We start off throwing about 50 to 60 per lesson and move up to 120 per lesson, we also throw at least three other times per week usually 50 to 80 per session. This is a proven instructor that has produced several quality pitchers that played at the college level. I have heard some pitcher's parents saying their PC says under no circumstances should you pitch from full distance with heavy ball, any opinions??
Pitching with weighted ball?
- Thread starter bigboyk
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I do not advocate using a windmill pitch with a commercial weighted ball. Mine are 7,8,9 and 10 ounces, I think. I show them to my students for fun and we do some flips with them. That is all. They are too heavy for the shoulder joint.
Plus, before I knew this, my DD pitched me one and broke my finger.
I have made some slightly heavy balls by driving finishing nails into the seams. I then weigh them on a postage scale. But, I haven't had an occasion to use those either.
To strengthen the young girls arms, we pitch some 14 inch balls, some 16 inch balls and we use the distance drills.
Plus, before I knew this, my DD pitched me one and broke my finger.
I have made some slightly heavy balls by driving finishing nails into the seams. I then weigh them on a postage scale. But, I haven't had an occasion to use those either.
To strengthen the young girls arms, we pitch some 14 inch balls, some 16 inch balls and we use the distance drills.
I will let Bill Hillhouse respond, since he told me why he had his view.. We have one, but she sets on her bed watching TV and does finger spins with it. We do not throw it.
I don't like weighted balls for pitching with, they are ok for doing drills at short distance but I would never full pitch with a weighted ball. Long toss is a better way to strengthen the arm IMHO.
I think the weight ball promotes pitching with a straight elbow therefore no elbow whip.
I think the weight ball promotes pitching with a straight elbow therefore no elbow whip.
- Mar 6, 2009
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I believe a weighted ball program also included under weighted balls and therefore if you believe a heavy ball induced reduced elbow whip, wouldn't an under weighted ball induce increased elbow whip?
I know on the baseball side of things, weighted ball pitching is something several respected pitching programs use successfully. I am unsure why it wouldn't be equally as effective in fastpitch. I am no expert in FP, so discount my opinion.
Bill
I would not have a problem with my pitchers pitching with a light weight ball. This will help increase there arm speed with out added stress to the sholder and arm. The increase weight of the weighted ball throw at full speed is what I don't like. It adds to much stress on the arm. IMHO
halskinner
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- May 7, 2008
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I have never worked with weighted softballs myself.
I have had a double handful of student's parents tell me they have. They all said the same thing; They saw no noticeable increase in speed other than what they expected with another year's growth.
Ernie has said in the past that they are OK to use but no more than a 20% overload in weight or a 20% underload. I will rely on his experience with them.
I DID stumble on to an exercise with a weight, heavier than a weighted softball, but it is NOT for doing the windmill motion.
In my early teens I got ahold of a few of my Dad's deep sea fishing weights and tried to do the windmill circle, with a one pound weight, thinking it might make me a little faster. I immediately realized it was not a good, smart or even safe thing to do in the windmill circle just from how unsafe and bad it felt when I did that.
In that same period in my life I DID stumble on to an exercise with one of those weights that DID increase my speed immediately. You do a specific exercise with the weight, very VERY slowly. You do it after you are warmed up and just before the game starts. It is a chapter in my book and if you dont think the book is worth it, Marc D. will refund your money.
There is also my 'Coach Hal's Foundation Method' in my book that will give her an aggressive stride and momentum to build speed.
Hal
I have had a double handful of student's parents tell me they have. They all said the same thing; They saw no noticeable increase in speed other than what they expected with another year's growth.
Ernie has said in the past that they are OK to use but no more than a 20% overload in weight or a 20% underload. I will rely on his experience with them.
I DID stumble on to an exercise with a weight, heavier than a weighted softball, but it is NOT for doing the windmill motion.
In my early teens I got ahold of a few of my Dad's deep sea fishing weights and tried to do the windmill circle, with a one pound weight, thinking it might make me a little faster. I immediately realized it was not a good, smart or even safe thing to do in the windmill circle just from how unsafe and bad it felt when I did that.
In that same period in my life I DID stumble on to an exercise with one of those weights that DID increase my speed immediately. You do a specific exercise with the weight, very VERY slowly. You do it after you are warmed up and just before the game starts. It is a chapter in my book and if you dont think the book is worth it, Marc D. will refund your money.
There is also my 'Coach Hal's Foundation Method' in my book that will give her an aggressive stride and momentum to build speed.
Hal
Aside from the strain, I am not a fan of anything that takes added movements/change in mechanics to throw a ball. Correct muscle memory is difficult to achieve and even harder and change. Much like hitting basketballs off of a tee might produce a push disconnect.
Mike
with long toss the pitcher moves backwords until the mechanics start to break down.
Mike
with long toss the pitcher moves backwords until the mechanics start to break down.
I've played around with them a bit before, but this is the first year I've used an overload/underload program on a regular basis. Both Marc and Cheri Kempf have programs for it so I figured it can't be all bad. The balls I use are 1 oz over and 1 oz under, i.e. 8 oz and 6 oz. I have the pitchers throw both at full speed. Let me say I only use it with pitchers whose mechanics are rock-solid. Here are my observations so far.
The heavy ball reveals all. If pitchers aren't finishing their pitches, i.e. pulling all the way through release, the ball tends not to make it there. They have to use a better motion, and more intent to throw hard, to be successful with the heavy ball.
With the light ball it's all about arm speed. My expectation is that the ball will go high. If it doesn't, the pitcher is not putting in full effort.
I can't speak to ball speed officially just yet, although it appears to the naked eye tha several girls have picked up speed. But I can attest that there have been no injuries or even pain, serious or otherwise. And I do believe it's making them better pitchers overall because of the effort that's required with each. We don't worry about throwing strikes, simply using good mechanics. Espeically with the lighter ball. Strikes tend to happen.
I see no lack of whip when using the heavy ball. In fact, I think it improves the ability to whip because of the way their mechanics are built. In my observation, a lot of girls stop accelerating a little before release. The heavier ball shows them where they stop and encourages them to continue the effort. Again, though, they have to have whip in their motion first before I'd even let them touch a heavier or lighter ball. And as for heavy, never more than 1 oz. up.
The heavy ball reveals all. If pitchers aren't finishing their pitches, i.e. pulling all the way through release, the ball tends not to make it there. They have to use a better motion, and more intent to throw hard, to be successful with the heavy ball.
With the light ball it's all about arm speed. My expectation is that the ball will go high. If it doesn't, the pitcher is not putting in full effort.
I can't speak to ball speed officially just yet, although it appears to the naked eye tha several girls have picked up speed. But I can attest that there have been no injuries or even pain, serious or otherwise. And I do believe it's making them better pitchers overall because of the effort that's required with each. We don't worry about throwing strikes, simply using good mechanics. Espeically with the lighter ball. Strikes tend to happen.
I see no lack of whip when using the heavy ball. In fact, I think it improves the ability to whip because of the way their mechanics are built. In my observation, a lot of girls stop accelerating a little before release. The heavier ball shows them where they stop and encourages them to continue the effort. Again, though, they have to have whip in their motion first before I'd even let them touch a heavier or lighter ball. And as for heavy, never more than 1 oz. up.
If I recall correctly (Read her website and research her teachings), Cindy Bristow has stated that underweighted balls are more effective and she also did say not to use weighted balls more then +1 Oz over weight. I believe there are some very successful pitchers that generate speed that have been taught from years back to use weighted balls, and with today's studies on injury and stress on joints, I suspect too much is...... too much.
**** I absolutely hope we aren't talking about pitchers 12U and lower! at least, no EARLIER then 12U. (My DD used weighted balls at 12U - oh about 8 years ago!, but I didn't like it.)
**** I absolutely hope we aren't talking about pitchers 12U and lower! at least, no EARLIER then 12U. (My DD used weighted balls at 12U - oh about 8 years ago!, but I didn't like it.)
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