Pitching at the CWS--the Fouts meltdown

Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,133
113
Dallas, Texas
I don't buy #1. If you look at their wristbands they just have too many sections to easily pick pitches that way. Unless Alabama was dumb enough to only have 1 or 2 cards total (which seems impossible) It would just take so long to correlate numbers to pitches. Each card looked to have 10 to 12 sections with 25 pitches in each section if my brief glances were correct. I'd assume that they changed cards between innings at least once or twice a game and probably used the same numbers on each card so that "125" could have been a different pitch each inning. Not impossible if Alabama got lazy, but seems doubtful.
Everyone things that their code system is "unbreakable". (Both the Germans and the Brits thought their codes were unbreakable...and both were broken.)

I see what you mean. But, FSU only needed to focus on picking the riseball.

It took a long time for Alabama's pitcher and catcher to be ready to throw the ball after receiving the sign. Look at the replay...the time delay between getting the sign from the dugout and throwing the ball is a very long time.

There was more than enough time to check the number against a cheat sheet and relay that to the batter--especially if they were simply trying to identify riseballs.

Also, the bonus structure for making it to the finals is signficant for the HC and the ACs. I can see someone spending some time with a spreadsheet going over the pitches and the pitch numbers to figure out Alabama's system.
 
Mar 4, 2015
526
93
New England
Agreed.

It's interesting in how you ordered your list, Sluggers. Do you feel it was stealing signs?

I have heard the school called the Florida State Criminals. I think that referred to the football team.

Criminoles, imo.

Also Free Shoes University, according to Steve Spurrier, but that was football.
 

marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am
Oct 2, 2011
4,312
113
Florida
Also, the bonus structure for making it to the finals is signficant for the HC and the ACs. I can see someone spending some time with a spreadsheet going over the pitches and the pitch numbers to figure out Alabama's system.

If you are using the cards generated by companies such as NeverMissASign - and most colleges are - you generate today's calling card on game day or at least do new ones each series of games. You should never reuse a card - and it is their fault if they are.
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,133
113
Dallas, Texas
It's interesting in how you ordered your list, Sluggers. Do you feel it was stealing signs?

I have heard the school called the Florida State Criminals. I think that referred to the football team.
(NOTE: Picking pitches against 14U and younger is stupid. What the Astros did was criminal. But, picking pitches in HS, college and beyond is part of the game.)

Yes, I do. I think FSU batters knew which Fouts' pitches were riseballs. So, layoff the high stuff and focus on the low stuff.

A couple of years ago, we picked riseballs against an all-state HS pitcher. 3B coach yelled a word to the batter indicate a rise. We told the team to layoff the rises (except for our best batter, who had a field day smacking riseballs to the fence). The pitcher got frustrated, and more or less fell apart.

Same thing happened to Fouts.

Watch the replay and look at the FSU batters. They are listening or looking for something in the time after the sign is given and before the pitch is made.
 
Jun 23, 2018
222
63
Texas
Watch the replay and look at the FSU batters. They are listening or looking for something in the time after the sign is given and before the pitch is made.
That triggers something I remember seeing. I think it was Sydney Sherril, maybe, at one AB where the camera was close on her face right up to the windup and I remember her looking in 1st base direction almost right up to the pitch. I thought it was strange she wasn't watching Fouts. Maybe she WAS getting signs from 1st base coach on pitches. Either the signs were picked or they found a tell?
 
Jul 5, 2016
652
63
Or maybe Fouts was just having a bad day. This isn't Coach Murphy's first rodeo and they have to have known that FSU had Fouts under a microscope.
 
Jun 11, 2012
741
63
Option 4. She’s human, she had a bad day. Maybe she wasn’t feeling well, who knows.

I think he should have pulled her sooner because it was pretty clear she wasn’t having a good outing pretty early.
 
Jul 22, 2015
851
93
Everyone things that their code system is "unbreakable". (Both the Germans and the Brits thought their codes were unbreakable...and both were broken.)

I see what you mean. But, FSU only needed to focus on picking the riseball.

It took a long time for Alabama's pitcher and catcher to be ready to throw the ball after receiving the sign. Look at the replay...the time delay between getting the sign from the dugout and throwing the ball is a very long time.

There was more than enough time to check the number against a cheat sheet and relay that to the batter--especially if they were simply trying to identify riseballs.

Also, the bonus structure for making it to the finals is signficant for the HC and the ACs. I can see someone spending some time with a spreadsheet going over the pitches and the pitch numbers to figure out Alabama's system.
It's certainly possible, but the numbers are usually randomly generated for each pitch and some teams even print new cards for each game. I'd have an easier time believing it if they had held off or hit really good riseballs a few times, but she just didn't throw many good ones.
 
Dec 11, 2010
4,713
113
Interesting post. Here is my take.

Fouts really likes to be ahead in the count. She really likes to throw first pitch strikes. Some teams let her do this and it is to her advantage. When you have to swing at the high fb that she throws for strikes and end up chasing her rb, she is going to beat you.

She also gets a little shook up when things start showing signs of going south. Hemphill was pretty good at handling that throughout the season, but it is the goal for the offensive team to rattle her.

She also struggles throwing back to first base. It doesn’t rise to the level of the yips but making her field balls is a good thing. You will see her underhand whenever she can and it seems more comfortable.

If she had a change up, she would be very hard to beat even with well planned offensive approach.

I wasn’t looking for signs that Alabama’s signs were picked. I probably wouldn’t know what to look for. I just thought they got her shook up and ran her out. I do think it’s very possible that they recognized a pattern or saw a tell that they exploited. I’d like to watch a game with Hillhouse and see what he would pick up, I know tells are a big part of the men’s game.
 
Last edited:
May 15, 2008
1,913
113
Cape Cod Mass.
We all know that hitting is contagious. Sometimes a fat pitch is popped up, sometimes it's not even swung at, sometimes it's hammered. What's the difference? And vice versa sometimes a good pitch is put in play for a hit and in some cases it gets parked over the fence. That's why you just never know and have to play the game. You'd have to do a pitch by pitch analysis to find something significant. Or you could just come up with a plausible conspiracy theory if that makes you feel better.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
42,830
Messages
679,481
Members
21,445
Latest member
Bmac81802
Top