Pitchers and number of pitches

[uncdrew]

I can't argue with your experience but in this situation while you can't control their job, pay, or their "hoots" about what you think, you do control their win and loss record. That usually is worth quite a bit if the topic is broached in a collaborative, respectful and humble way that retains a spirit of respect for the coach. If the coach in that environment is that stubborn and insists on driving my DD into the ground despite a reasonable request and attempt to collaborate, he/she is treated as an abusive partner and I/we walk. Their tournaments won't be much fun with zero pitchers vs one willing to go at least 3 games a week.

In the situations you describe I try to have some flexibility based on the importance of the event and always offset by additional rest, but my experience says having alignment upfront is critical to avoiding disagreements. I've also had many coaches pull my daughter before I've had to ask either because she is communicating with the coach or because they know the boundary.

I'm very fortunate to have never been in situation to deal with these toxic personalities and that's because our school coaches are reasonable and we do very careful due diligence on travel ball teams before joining.

Well said.

We left one travel team because they over-worked my DD. We will do it again if needed. And at the point we'd do that in the HS setting, pretty sure the vast majority of players, fans, parents and other coaches would be firmly on our side in that decision. We're not soft. We're just careful.

 

[jdint]

We are just getting ready to start the High School softball experience, but from what everyone tells me, the coach uses the same pitcher for every single inning of every single varsity game. This isn't DD obviously so overuse should not be a problem.......at least not for us.

 

[LW23]

When I had to get involved last season during HS ball I took a few days to cool off. Understanding how rough it was when DD wasn't in the circle, but its the coaches job to have them ready to play no matter who is in the circle. When we spoke I only discussed my daughter her long term goals and what my expectation was of the coach to help her achieve those goals. We also discussed the fact that we play HS ball for fun and to represent our community. It wasn't necessary however DD loves playing with her teammates most of who play at a Rec level. One thing I made sure of was that I never discussed the coaches game philosophy or any other players. We have leverage, but were respectful and haven't had any issues since. Bottom line is DD's health is our top priority. DD did try to talk the the coach before I had my meeting, and it didn't go over well. I have heard both good and bad stories about HS coaches, but the same is true of travel ball.

 

[Lance Steckler]

travel is different. as an example. my team is 18u, 14 players on roster, including 4 pitchers & 2 catchers (all play other positions). Tourney starts and the plan is for each to pitch at least 1 pool play game, and go from there on Sunday. roster batting if tourney rules allow. Catchers rotate as well as fielders, so all get field time in every game. and of course it all gets knocked over if Coach Smith shows up and wants to see Player Q pitch next inning or game.

And there is always the next pitcher going in is warmed up and ready to go if pitcher A struggles. ideally the pitchers are positioned to show the batters different looks and pitching styles to make any changes tougher for them to adjust to.

Rarely does a HS coach have 4 very good pitchers available. and of course if we are missing players due to scheduling conflicts, missing 1 pitcher of the 4 is not doomsday type scenario. just as if player comes and says "coach, I don't feel so good" alrighty, next arm up.

 

[kibadbo]

What about pitch count as it relates to practice? How much practice is too much? Are there ways for a pitcher to practice where they don't stress their arm?

 

[LW23]

What about pitch count as it relates to practice? How much practice is too much? Are there ways for a pitcher to practice where they don't stress their arm?

Great question, and it varies by athlete. I can give you an example of how we handle in season practice. School and select, we take off 2 weeks minimum after every full season school and select. DD does not pitch BP during school season. No.2 and No.3 handle that load.

School Ball:

Sunday: Tourney wrap up / If no tourney 70 pitches one focus pitch plus change up. During school season this is lesson day.
Monday: Always her day of full body rest, we don't deviate
Tuesday: High School Game she typically stays between 70-90 pitches
Wednesday: Lots of stretching then move into spin work and form 50 pitches.
Thursday: Rise focus with change up 50 pitches
Friday: High School Game 70-90 pitches
Saturday: Full body rest

So for DD typically 350 a week in school ball. And school work trumps practice so we may have another day off in there from time to time. Jbands 30 min after games

Travel:

Sunday: Tourney wrap up our 18U team has 4 pitchers so 80-100 per game. She typically goes 1-2 games.
Monday: Full body rest, we don't deviate
Tuesday: Lots of stretching Rise / change up focus 70 pitches / Possible full day of rest depending on weekend workload.
Wednesday: Lesson day Rise, change, and set up pitch typically curve 70-100
Thursday: Light work out proceed through pre-game warm up routine game mentality focus, simulate one inning the best slapper we know the best power hitting righty we know and a high average lefty that hits the gaps. 70 pitches
Friday: Full body rest / travel.
Saturday: Tourney 1-2 games 80-100 pitches

This is a typical tourney week 600+ pitches. You can see the difference in workload between seasons. This doesn't include national tourneys we focus on winning those and her workload typically increases. School work trumps practice during the fall so we may lose a day. Jbands 30 min after game.

I am sure some will think this is over the top, some may think its not. It has worked for us and DD has remained healthy. She committed to her dream school in the fall..

 

[kibadbo]

Great question, and it varies by athlete. I can give you an example of how we handle in season practice. School and select, we take off 2 weeks minimum after every full season school and select. DD does not pitch BP during school season. No.2 and No.3 handle that load.

School Ball:

Sunday: Tourney wrap up / If no tourney 70 pitches one focus pitch plus change up. During school season this is lesson day.
Monday: Always her day of full body rest, we don't deviate
Tuesday: High School Game she typically stays between 70-90 pitches
Wednesday: Lots of stretching then move into spin work and form 50 pitches.
Thursday: Rise focus with change up 50 pitches
Friday: High School Game 70-90 pitches
Saturday: Full body rest

So for DD typically 350 a week in school ball. And school work trumps practice so we may have another day off in there from time to time. Jbands 30 min after games

Travel:

Sunday: Tourney wrap up our 18U team has 4 pitchers so 80-100 per game. She typically goes 1-2 games.
Monday: Full body rest, we don't deviate
Tuesday: Lots of stretching Rise / change up focus 70 pitches / Possible full day of rest depending on weekend workload.
Wednesday: Lesson day Rise, change, and set up pitch typically curve 70-100
Thursday: Light work out proceed through pre-game warm up routine game mentality focus, simulate one inning the best slapper we know the best power hitting righty we know and a high average lefty that hits the gaps. 70 pitches
Friday: Full body rest / travel.
Saturday: Tourney 1-2 games 80-100 pitches

This is a typical tourney week 600+ pitches. You can see the difference in workload between seasons. This doesn't include national tourneys we focus on winning those and her workload typically increases. School work trumps practice during the fall so we may lose a day. Jbands 30 min after game.

I am sure some will think this is over the top, some may think its not. It has worked for us and DD has remained healthy. She committed to her dream school in the fall..

Thank you for the summary. Your routine seems well constructed and would likely reduce the incidence of injury while still getting the job done. Currently, my kid's workload is significantly higher. Some of that is due to the weight training she does with her HS team, but we are always trying to find the line between working hard enough to improve vs overwork.

She's 15 and started a little late. Consequently, she feels she needs to catch up to the other girls. So she throws on her own quite a bit. I grew up playing basketball and the answer there is always just shoot more. For example, Steph Curry takes approximately 500 jump shots a day. I know it's a different pattern with less stress etc. but the idea of having a system to groove in a motor pattern would be amazing. She hasn't had any injuries yet (knock on wood) but I feel like she is tempting fate.

 

[LW23]

Thank you for the summary. Your routine seems well constructed and would likely reduce the incidence of injury while still getting the job done. Currently, my kid's workload is significantly higher. Some of that is due to the weight training she does with her HS team, but we are always trying to find the line between working hard enough to improve vs overwork.

She's 15 and started a little late. Consequently, she feels she needs to catch up to the other girls. So she throws on her own quite a bit. I grew up playing basketball and the answer there is always just shoot more. For example, Steph Curry takes approximately 500 jump shots a day. I know it's a different pattern with less stress etc. but the idea of having a system to groove in a motor pattern would be amazing. She hasn't had any injuries yet (knock on wood) but I feel like she is tempting fate.

DD weight trains as well I only included our pitching routine in the reply. And there have been days when she just says I'm not throwing today, I'm exhausted. The main reason for the pattern is to allow us to manage our time. If we put lifting, school, pitching, and family obligations on paper we can adjust and allow time for everything. Good luck to you and your DD.

 

[uncdrew]

We are just getting ready to start the High School softball experience, but from what everyone tells me, the coach uses the same pitcher for every single inning of every single varsity game. This isn't DD obviously so overuse should not be a problem.......at least not for us.

High school ball is often "sit on the bench and watch the older girls play". I'm not a fan, quite honestly.

 

[uncdrew]

Yup, no pitching on Mondays or Fridays during travel season. Try to practice Tue/Wed/Thurs but if only get in two that's fine. That means she's pitching in some capacity 4-5 days per week. That's plenty.