Pitch bounces then hits batter

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Aug 12, 2014
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Whether a ball that hits the batter is a hit-by-pitch which entitles the batter to first base depends on the rule set's requirements on the batter. For example, USA still requires an attempt to move while NFHS does not.

This was my question, thanks for the reply. Our league uses NFHS and does not have a house rule for this. But with the umpire situation the way it is these days, I'm just happy when we get an ump who actually makes an effort. None of the ones we get even know that there are different rule sets.
 

radness

Possibilities & Opportunities!
Dec 13, 2019
7,270
113
The ONLY thing a pitch that bounces before the plate CANNOT be is a called strike. Well, it can be, but that was only because the guy I was working with last week was incompetent. It SHOULDN'T be.
Glad you commented it can be called a strike,
( even while it shouldn't be)
amazing how many times I've seen that.



Other than that, it can be (1) a ball (live), (2) a ball that hits a batter (dead), or even (3) a ball that is hit by the batter and put into play or fouled off (I've only seen this once, on turf, for a double).

Whether a ball that hits the batter is a hit-by-pitch which entitles the batter to first base depends on the rule set's requirements on the batter. For example, USA still requires an attempt to move while NFHS does not.

That said ... some house leagues (mainly rec) will write into their house rules an exception to HBP for a ball that bounces/rolls into the batter. This is because of the atrocious level of pitching and to try to encourage more batting.

If an umpire is telling you a bounced pitch cannot be a HBP, then I would guess that umpire mainly works a local rec-level league as that does NOT exist in any of the major codes.
 
Jul 19, 2021
630
93
the guy I was working with last week was incompetent.
Nice to see umps finally recognizing the incompetency that is out there. Beats the heck out of the old days when umps on here used to gaslight you for saying there were umpires who didn't know what the heck they were doing.
 
May 29, 2015
3,731
113
It's such a bummer to hear stories like these. 99.9% of umps should get this right. I didn't say 100% cause...you know...humans aren't perfect.

Keep in mind, many “local league” umpires are guys and gals who are supporting a local organization for children.

Unless the organization formally joins a national org (suck as Little League or PONY), they likely don’t even have a formal rulebook beyond a 20-year old Word printout that has been handed down and handwritten on. Never mind having umpires who study the rulebook and receive formal training.

My local league pays $25 per game (which is what I raised it to when I ran it over 10 years ago). No “licensed” and “experienced” umpire is going to work games for that pay for only 6 weeks out of the year. However, we are/were very fortunate to have two guys who have supported the program for damn near 30 years as our umpires. I always joked that they were hanging out in an empty lot, so the town built softball fields around them. They are fantastic umpires for the program, but have no interest in doing anything else. These guys know the league rules in and out … but not other organizations’ rules.

The problem happens when guys and gals jump around the various alphabet soups and don’t bother to read (or listen) up a little … or are never provided that opportunity. Very few tournaments that I have worked brother with a rules meeting beforehand.
 

radness

Possibilities & Opportunities!
Dec 13, 2019
7,270
113
These guys know the league rules in and out … but not other organizations’ rules.

The problem happens when guys and gals jump around the various alphabet soups and don’t bother to read (or listen) up a little … or are never provided that opportunity.

Very few tournaments that I have worked brother with a rules meeting beforehand.
😁 a group of umpires deliberating on which umpire is right might be similar to a group of politicians...
 

LEsoftballdad

DFP Vendor
Jun 29, 2021
2,838
113
NY
Keep in mind, many “local league” umpires are guys and gals who are supporting a local organization for children.

Unless the organization formally joins a national org (suck as Little League or PONY), they likely don’t even have a formal rulebook beyond a 20-year old Word printout that has been handed down and handwritten on. Never mind having umpires who study the rulebook and receive formal training.

My local league pays $25 per game (which is what I raised it to when I ran it over 10 years ago). No “licensed” and “experienced” umpire is going to work games for that pay for only 6 weeks out of the year. However, we are/were very fortunate to have two guys who have supported the program for damn near 30 years as our umpires. I always joked that they were hanging out in an empty lot, so the town built softball fields around them. They are fantastic umpires for the program, but have no interest in doing anything else. These guys know the league rules in and out … but not other organizations’ rules.

The problem happens when guys and gals jump around the various alphabet soups and don’t bother to read (or listen) up a little … or are never provided that opportunity. Very few tournaments that I have worked brother with a rules meeting beforehand.
In my area in the last five years, we've had USSSA, PONY, NFHS, which you pointed out in NY is actually USA, LL, etc... I have seen every umpire in all the different sanctions. To expect them to know all the different ins and outs is asking too much.
 
Jun 6, 2016
2,714
113
Chicago
or even (3) a ball that is hit by the batter and put into play or fouled off (I've only seen this once, on turf, for a double).

Our 10u league is coach pitch after a walk. This year, I did coach pitch for all but one batter on the team. That one batter preferred my DW's pitching, so that's who pitched to her.

Two different times this year, my DW bounced a pitch to this girl and she hit it. Both times in the air, over the heads of the drawn-in infield. I'm not positive, but I'd be surprised if she had more hits on balls that didn't bounce.

The second time it happened, the parents on the other team were so, so mad (as I'm laughing that it happened again). "You can't do that!" "Why not?" No answer, and of course the play stood.

To the topic at hand: This same 10u league doesn't allow HBP on a pitch that bounces, but every level above it does.

I did have TWO HS umpires both get this wrong in a game a few years ago. I couldn't complain to the assigner because the home plate ump was the assigner (the other was the one very bad ump I've talked about recently). I did send the assigner the rule after the game and he apologized for getting it wrong, but I have no idea how he blew it.
 
May 29, 2015
3,731
113
😁 a group of umpires deliberating on which umpire is right might be similar to a group of politicians...

I'm going to appeal that all the way to the Supreme Umpire. 😋


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