Outfield Positioning

[canyonjoe]

Moving fielders around is like card counting. If you do it right it gives you an edge if you do it wrong not so much. You can have perfect data and move people to the highest probability of success but it only but you can't cover the whole field. They will hit to where you were before you moved sometimes. You have to make you decisions and live with it. If you look at the majors you'll see hitters go the other way, but you often see 100's of times when they hit right into it. The stats the majors have to work with are staggering.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

Moving fielders around is like card counting. If you do it right it gives you an edge

Agreed that the discussion should be framed on shifting for a whole game(s) to reduce runs scored. Clearly, there is a benefit in baseball, in softball, the challenges are that you have fewer games, fewer data, and a smaller outfield.

I also think slappers factor into the equation.

 

[CoachJD]

So, you think that because the manager doesn't personally draft up the shift cards, that he's a bystander with no say or responsibility in how they're developed or how the defense executes in real time?

Joe Maddon has pretty much said this is what happens.

Every team is different, so I'm sure there are some variations on what the manager's actual role is, but some FOs dictate the daily lineup. Some just implement shifts. But the manager has a lot less say in these matters now, and that's one reason why a lot of the old heads are struggling to stay in the game.

Tony La Russa's resistance to the information + his total impunity is a big reason why the White Sox were such a disappointment the past two years.

I'd guess the manager has a say in matters to some extent, but if the defense is supposed to be shifting and he's telling them to not do it, he's probably not keeping that job for very long.

 

[CoachJD]

The field is pretty small. We have our OFers play a few steps deeper than straightaway because it’s easier to make a catch on the run coming in than over their heads. Speedy middles get 70% of the dinkers, but we’ll take those occasional singles over balls that get past the OF. Our biggest problem is tournaments that use men’s slow pitch fields with their 300-foot fences.

Everybody always says it's easier to make a catch coming in than going back, but I've never found this to actually be true. I'm not sure it even makes sense logically for anybody who can properly read a fly ball. It's hard for me to explain, but it has to do with running toward/against the direction of the ball and running with the flight of the ball. It's also not easy to dive forward (sliding catches are easier, but still difficult), and knowing if/when you need to make that move adds a level of difficulty. The one caveat: A hard line drive hit directly at and over the head of the CF is very difficult to judge, but if it's angled at all, you just drop step, run like hell, and catch the ball. The real problem is most coaches don't give OFs enough reps reading balls over their heads for them to become good at it.

Positioning is a matter of preference so not saying you're wrong to play them deeper, but I don't like the philosophy. I believe in making the other team earn it. I want my OF a bit on the shallow side until the offense proves they can hit it over their heads (we play a bit deeper on turf fields, and even deeper when we play on a turf field with no fence to have a better chance of cutting off balls on the ground). Those dinky singles kill us, not the once-per-game ball over an outfielder's head.

I get the logic behind playing deeper, and it's not always bad, but I see so many games where I'm not sure a hitter can actually hit a ball over an OFs head without it going over the fence and I wonder why the heck they're so deep as the offense drops in base hit after base hit all game.

 

[GIMNEPIWO]

Well maybe he was trying to pitch her inside/outside for a RH/LH batter and the pitcher(s) kept missing her/their spot..

If your pitcher is lousy you might be better off positioning your OF based upon where you think the batter will hit it if it is right down broadway

I could see that happening with nearly every other coach except this one (and this school) who seemed unencumbered by the thought process ... She is the same one that with bases loaded, down 7-0 in the 5th, with her 2, 3 & 4 (DD) hitters coming up decided it was a good time to start bunting ... The results ; #2 hitter bunted 3rd strike foul, #3 hitter bunted 3rd strike foul, #4 hitter - with 2 strikes on her she takes off the bunt sign and the ball is hit to the warning track for out #3 ... Having 3 DD's go through this program I watched 4 years of this before new coaching was brought in ... I recall one JV coach who only lasted a year that didn't know stealing a base was legal until the season was almost over ... She finally noticed other teams were stealing (cheating) 3/4's of the way through the season and went out of the dugout to argue, yelling "they can't do that, they can't do that"! ... Good times.

 

[Westwind]

I could see that happening with nearly every other coach except this one (and this school) who seemed unencumbered by the thought process ... She is the same one that with bases loaded, down 7-0 in the 5th, with her 2, 3 & 4 (DD) hitters coming up decided it was a good time to start bunting ... The results ; #2 hitter bunted 3rd strike foul, #3 hitter bunted 3rd strike foul, #4 hitter - with 2 strikes on her she takes off the bunt sign and the ball is hit to the warning track for out #3 ... Having 3 DD's go through this program I watched 4 years of this before new coaching was brought in ... I recall one JV coach who only lasted a year that didn't know stealing a base was legal until the season was almost over ... She finally noticed other teams were stealing (cheating) 3/4's of the way through the season and went out of the dugout to argue, yelling "they can't do that, they can't do that"! ... Good times.

This exchange was a classic and one of my fondest high school softball moments:

“She’s never coached softball before and she played tennis in college but as a band teacher we feel like she will be very effective coaching in the unconventional classroom of softball coaching.” —Actual bs by actual athletic director who took time out of his search for a better football coach to reassure an actual softball coach that this new hire was going to be AWESOME.

Maybe we should ask her what her thoughts on outfield positioning are.

 

[GIMNEPIWO]

This exchange was a classic and one of my fondest high school softball moments:

“She’s never coached softball before and she played tennis in college but as a band teacher we feel like she will be very effective coaching in the unconventional classroom of softball coaching.” —Actual bs by actual athletic director who took time out of his search for a better football coach to reassure an actual softball coach that this new hire was going to be AWESOME.

Maybe we should ask her what her thoughts on outfield positioning are.

LMAO ... Well, when that JV coach was hired, the Head Varsity Coach introduced her as "someone with years of playing and coaching experience who is prepared to take this team to a new level."

We came to find out this meant she had played and coached one year of rec adult slow pitch co-ed years earlier.

 

[Westwind]

LMAO ... Well, when that JV coach was hired, the Head Varsity Coach introduced her as "someone with years of playing and coaching experience who is prepared to take this team to a new level."

We came to find out this meant she had played and coached one year of rec adult slow pitch co-ed years earlier.

That’s hilarious! One of the “qualifications“ that the band teacher possessed was “she can pitch to the players”. Turns out she pitched slow pitch in a church league.

In warmups, she did not understand the effect of spring winds on a wiffle ball, was scared of the balls being hit back at her. She stood at first base with her hands in her pockets and in two years I never heard her utter a word to a base runner. Pretty much dripped coaching excellence.

The head coach was A Former HS State Champion and Former College Player. In the last hs game dd payed, the Former College Player made no adjustments and gave no direction when the team that eliminated us bunted the bottom of their order for a come from behind win.

She did know how to appeal a call though. That was nice. The guy before her didn’t know how to do that. Awesome experience, that hs softball.

 

[radness]

Which do people think is most critical to being an outfielder?
Can Pick Two Answers~

Running speed.
Throwing ability.
Reaction to ball off bat.
Situational awareness.

 

[Westwind]

Which do people think is most critical to being an outfielder?
Can Pick Two Answers~

Running speed.
Throwing ability.
Situational awareness.

1) Good first step
2) Good first step
2) Running speed
2) Throwing ability
2) Situational awareness.
2) Belief that no ball in the air will hit the ground.
2) Good first step

As far as positioning, I really think a well coached outfield can be played nearly straight up for most situations including slappers. It is my not so humble opinion that Coach Shiny Head would be better off reminding players to adjust to the hitter rather than the constant deluge of goofy directions coming out of the dugout.

None of this matters though since the head coach is worried about his dd at ss, the assistant coach is worried about his dd at 2 and no one coaches the outfield where a ball that drops or gets by an outfielder causes real damage.