Once a check swing has been ruled a swing by the plate umpire, can that decision be changed?

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May 29, 2015
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This should NEVER happen. A strike call on a swing (not a checked swing by the way, since it WASN'T checked, it was swung) is not appealable.

Depending on how any particular umpire works, if there is a checked swing on a potential third strike, if the plate umpire rules it 'no swing' he should IMMEDIATELY and AUTOMATICALLY go for help without the appeal, this eliminates any advantage that might be accrued to either team. Also, the batter can always begin to advance and can always come back if it ends up the pitch was a ball/no swing.

While I recognize what you are trying to accomplish, I disagree about immediate and automatic. It should never be immediate and automatic.

Are they teaching that in a clinic or camp? (And if so, who?)

It should only be done when asked, and not even all the time in those cases.

If an umpire changes a call, umpires have full authority to place runners where they would have ended up in the umpire's judgment. If a call gets changed to strike three, sorry, it was changed and I'm not putting the batter on base on some wing-and-a-prayer that he would have beat out the U3K. Now, if the runner takes off running and the catcher bombs it into rightfield, we know where they would have ended up. Probably not a great idea to appeal on that then. Play, ask, accept.
 
Feb 13, 2021
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While I recognize what you are trying to accomplish, I disagree about immediate and automatic. It should never be immediate and automatic.

Are they teaching that in a clinic or camp? (And if so, who?)

It should only be done when asked, and not even all the time in those cases.

If an umpire changes a call, umpires have full authority to place runners where they would have ended up in the umpire's judgment. If a call gets changed to strike three, sorry, it was changed and I'm not putting the batter on base on some wing-and-a-prayer that he would have beat out the U3K. Now, if the runner takes off running and the catcher bombs it into rightfield, we know where they would have ended up. Probably not a great idea to appeal on that then. Play, ask, accept.

Was just going in to edit when I saw your response. The auto and immediate is on a ball in the dirt combined with a potential checked swing.

It is, admittedly, a baseball mechanic, but one that has obvious application in softball. As for "where does it come from" This is the quote from the Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual 2019 (this is the 'bible' for all of pro baseball):

In situations where there are two strikes on the batter and the next pitch is a passed ball or wild pitch (or other pitch which eludes the catcher) on which there is a check swing, the proper procedure is for the plate umpire to ask the base umpire for help IMMEDIATELY (while the catcher is retrieving the ball), without waiting for an appeal request from the defense. This way, both the defense and the offense are quickly advised as to what the final call will be.
 
Jan 28, 2017
1,663
83
This should NEVER happen. A strike call on a swing (not a checked swing by the way, since it WASN'T checked, it was swung) is not appealable.

Depending on how any particular umpire works, if there is a checked swing on a potential third strike, if the plate umpire rules it 'no swing' he should IMMEDIATELY and AUTOMATICALLY go for help without the appeal, this eliminates any advantage that might be accrued to either team. Also, the batter can always begin to advance and can always come back if it ends up the pitch was a ball/no swing.

But have seen it several times on a called 3rd strike.
 
Jan 28, 2017
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Sorry @Tango , I didn't think you were and neither was I. I have just started this "self-righteous campaign" to point out the language that people use when talking about umpires. Just my little effort to combat the little things that I think many people don't recognize as adding to the negative attitudes towards umpires.

I would offer that an umpire who is immediately pointing to the other umpire is neither having doubt nor is he "doing it right." If he is immediately pointing he did not make a call at all. You should never punt a call. Always make the call ("ball") and then do what you need to do from there. You should NEVER not make the call and ask your partner to bail you out.

On your inning ending scenario, you do NOT stop the play to check. You let it play out and then you can deal with a request for help. If the base umpire says "Yes, she did!" fixing it is easy. I would also warn players and coaches to NOT make that ask during a play. Completely different scenario, but look at what the Mets did while the ball was still live.

I appreciate your recognition! Thank you!

If called out for the 3rd out and overturned what do you do? I'm not sure.
 
May 29, 2015
3,731
113
Maybe I am misunderstanding again ... you cannot change it if it was called a strike.

If it was called a ball and the base umpires says "Yes she did!" ... you start the next inning. Or you continue the play if people are running around -- the ball is technically live on the request. (Sorry, I have a hard time using the word "appeal" for this, although I know it is accepted.)

I never thought about it, but if you are the batter, I guess you should run once they ask the plate umpire to go for help.
 
Feb 13, 2021
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From my understanding, here is the thought process behind the mechanic (and also, I think, clears up the 'otherwise' you are thinking about @The Man In Blue ):

Without making a verbal "No, he didn't go" after calling ball, the plate umpire makes the request for help to the base umpire (since you would never ask on a strike call, once you go all know you called it a ball and no swing). The base umpire is already alert to the fact that the plate umpire is coming on a half-swing ball in the dirt and makes the final call of "Yes he did" or "No, he didn't".

In this instance, yes the plate umpire is apparently 'punting' the call, but it is what is prescribed in the umpire manual, so there is no down-grading of the umpire's ability to make his own calls. Also, it is not an appeal by the defense, but rather the plate umpire going immediately for help, similar to a swipe tag at first base where the initial calling umpire has no angle.
 

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