Once a check swing has been ruled a swing by the plate umpire, can that decision be changed?

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Dec 13, 2019
4,147
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California
But then youd have someone complain that the ump should have let the coin hit the ground instead of in his hand ;)
True! Standard could be let it fall to the ground. Then of course something may abstruct its landing flat...
🤷‍♀️slippery slope :)
 
May 29, 2015
2,375
113
But then youd have someone complain that the ump should have let the coin hit the ground instead of in his hand ;)

First time I ever did volleyball … I had a nice, heavy flipping coin and the gym got quiet right before that thing smashed into the ground and bounced. Lots of noise. One of the coaches laughed and said “Umpire?”

Lesson learned. But still not my most embarrassing coin toss. That one landed in the cafeteria. Honest.
 
May 29, 2015
2,375
113
We did re-toss it, but I learned something the first time that was confirmed with the second one … bad juju, man. It is definitely bad juju. Nothing good is going to follow.
 
Jan 28, 2017
1,278
83
Correct. As an umpire it does bug me, too.

Why do we let the defense ask but not the offense? Why is my angle so much better based on the person asking?

That said, I think the answer is to eliminate the ask altogether. Why do we allow it for this one very specific microscopic instance?

Yes, the plate umpire can deny the request … but not in every code.

Check swing for strike three to end the inning with people advancing? The umpire realizes he messed up.
 
May 29, 2015
2,375
113
Check swing for strike three to end the inning with people advancing? The umpire realizes he messed up.

I am not sure of the meaning of your post. I am also not sure why "the umpire realizes he messed up" and I take a little exception to that. Perhaps the umpire made the correct call from his point of view and it looks different from 72+ feet away at another angle. So which one is right? Why should that depend on the person ASKING not the person ANSWERING?

You want to know something? EVERYTHING looks different from 72+feet away and from another angle. That's why we try not to make calls from that distance or from bad angles. Why do we allow one team that potential advantage but not the other?

The simple answer is "the rule says so." As to why the rule allows that when every other rule in the book seems to written to bring parity and fairness to the game ...

From an umpire perspective, I can agree, on one hand, that it acknowledges that an umpire has to be watching many simultaneous events. However, that is true on every play, so why is this one so different?

Edit to add: If runners are advancing, I am watching the runners, not a request from a coach who didn't like the call. I have a live ball.
 
Jan 28, 2017
1,278
83
I am not sure of the meaning of your post. I am also not sure why "the umpire realizes he messed up" and I take a little exception to that. Perhaps the umpire made the correct call from his point of view and it looks different from 72+ feet away at another angle. So which one is right? Why should that depend on the person ASKING not the person ANSWERING?

You want to know something? EVERYTHING looks different from 72+feet away and from another angle. That's why we try not to make calls from that distance or from bad angles. Why do we allow one team that potential advantage but not the other?

The simple answer is "the rule says so." As to why the rule allows that when every other rule in the book seems to written to bring parity and fairness to the game ...

From an umpire perspective, I can agree, on one hand, that it acknowledges that an umpire has to be watching many simultaneous events. However, that is true on every play, so why is this one so different?

Edit to add: If runners are advancing, I am watching the runners, not a request from a coach who didn't like the call. I have a live ball.

Not trying to be a jerk. Didn't come across the correct way. In my experience when a home plate umpire calls a strike on a check swing but then he immediately points to first. He has a lot of doubt and thinks he missed the call, IMO. Almost a given to be called a strike. Now if they ask him to check it and he allows it that's different.

Where it gets really difficult is the 3rd strike to end the inning on a check swing but runners advanced during the play. What do you do if you allow the base umpire to overrule the check? Do the runners advance or do they go back?

Trying to point out how hard it is to do the job and not be in a pickle. Not faulting umpires at all.
 
Feb 13, 2021
599
63
MI
when a home plate umpire calls a strike on a check swing but then he immediately points to first.

This should NEVER happen. A strike call on a swing (not a checked swing by the way, since it WASN'T checked, it was swung) is not appealable.

Depending on how any particular umpire works, if there is a checked swing on a potential third strike, if the plate umpire rules it 'no swing' he should IMMEDIATELY and AUTOMATICALLY go for help without the appeal, this eliminates any advantage that might be accrued to either team. Also, the batter can always begin to advance and can always come back if it ends up the pitch was a ball/no swing.
 
May 29, 2015
2,375
113
Sorry @Tango , I didn't think you were and neither was I. I have just started this "self-righteous campaign" to point out the language that people use when talking about umpires. Just my little effort to combat the little things that I think many people don't recognize as adding to the negative attitudes towards umpires.

I would offer that an umpire who is immediately pointing to the other umpire is neither having doubt nor is he "doing it right." If he is immediately pointing he did not make a call at all. You should never punt a call. Always make the call ("ball") and then do what you need to do from there. You should NEVER not make the call and ask your partner to bail you out.

On your inning ending scenario, you do NOT stop the play to check. You let it play out and then you can deal with a request for help. If the base umpire says "Yes, she did!" fixing it is easy. I would also warn players and coaches to NOT make that ask during a play. Completely different scenario, but look at what the Mets did while the ball was still live.

I appreciate your recognition! Thank you!
 

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