Olympics 2021

[Hillhouse]

The US doesn’t need the Olympics to grow the game. It is the international community that needs it and I am not sure how that can be done. If you look at men’s basketball, the initial Dream team did a lot towards this goal but there is not the equivalent of MJ, Bird and Magic in women’s softball (in terms of world recognition).

Edit: I do find it interesting that many of the baseball-crazed countries (DR for example) don't have better fastpitch teams but that may be a gender gap thing in those countries more than anything else..

replying to your edit Pattar, countries like DR, Venezuela, etc do have very good fastpitch teams Venezuela was 2nd in the Men's world championship in 2013 for example. In the early 2000's, Dominican sent 4 pitchers to my home town in Pennsylvania for me to work with: 2 male, 2 female. They played in our local leagues and I'd work with them during the week days. They got quite good, the talent level is unmatched. Here's the rub:

The ISF (now WBSC) made the moronic decision to play world championships every 2 years instead of every 4 after the 2013 season. Couple that with countries like DR, Venezuela, and island nations with great baseball backgrounds also have to compete in the Pan Am games. That means, quite literally, their governing body has to spend $10's of thousands to send their team(s) to Pan Am qualifiers, Pan Am games, then WBSC events. These countries cannot afford it. In 2019, Argentina won the Men's world championship, beating Japan. They kept the same basic team all the way from the U19 division (which I think they also won) and moved everyone up to the Men's level and now won that. But these guys on Argentina are not poor kids like in the DR, they mostly come from wealthy families. They have family money, they get very little from Softball Argentina. The USA is funded by sponsors and the USOC. They can afford to not only go to all international events but, look at the tours the women's team gets prior to the Olympics. Covid hurt their tour this year but, the one scheduled for last year had them zig zagging across the USA, countless flights, hotels, rental cars, meals and games. All paid for by sponsors and USOC. In contrast, the US men's team is lucky to get 1-2 training camps before going to an international event. But more on them another time for anyone interested.

MLB teams have facilities on these island countries like DR, Puerto Rico, etc. that they discover kids very early who have potential and sign them immediately, which means they are being "sponsored" by their MLB club team. Softball has no such system, or the money.

Even here in the USA, when you look at the top Travel ball organizations: it costs these parents a fortune. I remember seeing some WCWS games at one point, when they show the parents of a particular player, many of them were former MLB, NFL players or something where they had a lot of resources. There are probably some INCREDIBLE athletes in the projects of Baltimore (for example) who play softball but will never get seen or recruited because they don't have the resources to be on a travel team, let alone private lessons. Where I live now, Omaha, I drive to Des Moines once a week to work with a team called Iowa Premier. I've NEVER EVER EVER seen anything like the travel schedule these girls have played this summer. I don't know how the parents afford it, and have the ability to travel with them so much. It's simply incredible. We are very blessed to live in this country.

 

[_MIA_]

replying to your edit Pattar, countries like DR, Venezuela, etc do have very good fastpitch teams Venezuela was 2nd in the Men's world championship in 2013 for example. In the early 2000's, Dominican sent 4 pitchers to my home town in Pennsylvania for me to work with: 2 male, 2 female. They played in our local leagues and I'd work with them during the week days. They got quite good, the talent level is unmatched. Here's the rub:

The ISF (now WBSC) made the moronic decision to play world championships every 2 years instead of every 4 after the 2013 season. Couple that with countries like DR, Venezuela, and island nations with great baseball backgrounds also have to compete in the Pan Am games. That means, quite literally, their governing body has to spend $10's of thousands to send their team(s) to Pan Am qualifiers, Pan Am games, then WBSC events. These countries cannot afford it. In 2019, Argentina won the Men's world championship, beating Japan. They kept the same basic team all the way from the U19 division (which I think they also won) and moved everyone up to the Men's level and now won that. But these guys on Argentina are not poor kids like in the DR, they mostly come from wealthy families. They have family money, they get very little from Softball Argentina. The USA is funded by sponsors and the USOC. They can afford to not only go to all international events but, look at the tours the women's team gets prior to the Olympics. Covid hurt their tour this year but, the one scheduled for last year had them zig zagging across the USA, countless flights, hotels, rental cars, meals and games. All paid for by sponsors and USOC. In contrast, the US men's team is lucky to get 1-2 training camps before going to an international event. But more on them another time for anyone interested.

MLB teams have facilities on these island countries like DR, Puerto Rico, etc. that they discover kids very early who have potential and sign them immediately, which means they are being "sponsored" by their MLB club team. Softball has no such system, or the money.

Even here in the USA, when you look at the top Travel ball organizations: it costs these parents a fortune. I remember seeing some WCWS games at one point, when they show the parents of a particular player, many of them were former MLB, NFL players or something where they had a lot of resources. There are probably some INCREDIBLE athletes in the projects of Baltimore (for example) who play softball but will never get seen or recruited because they don't have the resources to be on a travel team, let alone private lessons. Where I live now, Omaha, I drive to Des Moines once a week to work with a team called Iowa Premier. I've NEVER EVER EVER seen anything like the travel schedule these girls have played this summer. I don't know how the parents afford it, and have the ability to travel with them so much. It's simply incredible. We are very blessed to live in this country.

Makes sense. You are right, those countries didn't start churning out MLBers until MLB starting putting money into development and scouting down there...and yes TB is ridiculously expensive and that unfortunately eliminates many kids. My daughter plays AAU basketball as well and there are a lot of potential SS running around on those courts...

 

[The Man In Blue]

I can understand the sentiments on the older players, but I don't necessarily agree.

It does feel like one of those All-Star games where they overlook all the current talent to give a last hurrah to the veterans. Despite an overall older roster, Abbot and Osterman are the only ones bringing any Olympic experience. Granted, with the sport being gone that long, you are going to have to reach back if you want any leaders with that experience.

The average age (just using birth years) is 28. You have three of those "older" players and three players "younger" (i.e., just out of college). I don't think the issue is the three at the cap, it is the overall higher numbers going into the average. 8 players are at/under the average and 7 are over the average.

Mulipola and Nickles are younger than Garcia, but I get the point about only having three recently active college players. It certainly does NOT help grow the game at the American level. I know there was a big package on Abbott playing professionally in Japan. How many of these other players do as well?

I do remember hearing something about Garcia and the time that the Olympic team was taking away from their college teams though, is that possibly the reason? Or was this a decision by the USA Olympic committee?

Does Abbott throw an illegal pitch every time? I laughed when it got called because I saw it multiple times in the package they aired before the game. She then did it a second time on camera but didn't get called.

 

[The Man In Blue]

@Hillhouse I wanted to give your post a huge like, until you hit that last sentence. If it was sarcasm, let me know and I'll add the like.

Sorry, as a kid who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks and an adult who teaches in an impoverished school district surrounded by Southern wealth, I can't agree with the wealth inequality in our society being a good thing.

I really do appreciate that you are acknowledging that the "upper levels" of the game are not necessarily the best players, but the ones who have the wealth for resources.

 

[radness]

things from my time with the US team earlier this year:
1. they did have to make a concession to play on baseball fields to get the game back into the Olympics. (Even Japan's pro leagues, men and women play on similar fields).








#2. Not all games are at the same event. I remember a lot of chatter about a lot of domestic travel within Japan to play at different venues. That has become more relevant than ever now with the Covid spikes in Japan.

Normal to some
Abnormal to others
= There is no normal.

 

[flash277]

The US doesn’t need the Olympics to grow the game. It is the international community that needs it and I am not sure how that can be done. If you look at men’s basketball, the initial Dream team did a lot towards this goal but there is not the equivalent of MJ, Bird and Magic in women’s softball (in terms of world recognition).

Edit: I do find it interesting that many of the baseball-crazed countries (DR for example) don't have better fastpitch teams but that may be a gender gap thing in those countries more than anything else..

Hard to grow the game internationally when the other teams have quite a few Americans on them (Mexico has 17 out of 19 players). Plus there isn't going to be anymore Olympics play if USA beats up everyone. I guess their only competition is Japan. As for last nights game, what a borefest. I certainly enjoy watching a MLB pitcher throw a one hitter......A softball pitcher throwing a one hitter, not so much.

 

[_MIA_]

Hard to grow the game internationally when the other teams have quite a few Americans on them (Mexico has 17 out of 19 players).

I disagree with this. If it takes US players to make a country's team more competitive then that is what they should do. Winning/success will breed interest which will breed better home grown players.

 

[flash277]

I disagree with this. If it takes US players to make a country's team more competitive then that is what they should do. Winning/success will breed interest which will breed better home grown players.

Really?.......Then maybe the Mens USA soccer team should get a bunch of Brazilians, maybe then they can win a World Cup......

 

[Shiloh]

replying to your edit Pattar, countries like DR, Venezuela, etc do have very good fastpitch teams Venezuela was 2nd in the Men's world championship in 2013 for example. In the early 2000's, Dominican sent 4 pitchers to my home town in Pennsylvania for me to work with: 2 male, 2 female. They played in our local leagues and I'd work with them during the week days. They got quite good, the talent level is unmatched. Here's the rub:

The ISF (now WBSC) made the moronic decision to play world championships every 2 years instead of every 4 after the 2013 season. Couple that with countries like DR, Venezuela, and island nations with great baseball backgrounds also have to compete in the Pan Am games. That means, quite literally, their governing body has to spend $10's of thousands to send their team(s) to Pan Am qualifiers, Pan Am games, then WBSC events. These countries cannot afford it. In 2019, Argentina won the Men's world championship, beating Japan. They kept the same basic team all the way from the U19 division (which I think they also won) and moved everyone up to the Men's level and now won that. But these guys on Argentina are not poor kids like in the DR, they mostly come from wealthy families. They have family money, they get very little from Softball Argentina. The USA is funded by sponsors and the USOC. They can afford to not only go to all international events but, look at the tours the women's team gets prior to the Olympics. Covid hurt their tour this year but, the one scheduled for last year had them zig zagging across the USA, countless flights, hotels, rental cars, meals and games. All paid for by sponsors and USOC. In contrast, the US men's team is lucky to get 1-2 training camps before going to an international event. But more on them another time for anyone interested.

MLB teams have facilities on these island countries like DR, Puerto Rico, etc. that they discover kids very early who have potential and sign them immediately, which means they are being "sponsored" by their MLB club team. Softball has no such system, or the money.

Even here in the USA, when you look at the top Travel ball organizations: it costs these parents a fortune. I remember seeing some WCWS games at one point, when they show the parents of a particular player, many of them were former MLB, NFL players or something where they had a lot of resources. There are probably some INCREDIBLE athletes in the projects of Baltimore (for example) who play softball but will never get seen or recruited because they don't have the resources to be on a travel team, let alone private lessons. Where I live now, Omaha, I drive to Des Moines once a week to work with a team called Iowa Premier. I've NEVER EVER EVER seen anything like the travel schedule these girls have played this summer. I don't know how the parents afford it, and have the ability to travel with them so much. It's simply incredible. We are very blessed to live in this country.

Right on @Hillhouse.

I am convinced the worlds greatest golfer isn’t Tiger Woods, it’s a young person in rural India who never got a chance to play.

 

[_MIA_]

Really?.......Then maybe the Mens USA soccer team should get a bunch of Brazilians, maybe then they can win a World Cup......

Sure, why not? I want to say you and I have argued about this before and I am not interested in going back and forth about it. I gave my opinion.