Middle School vs. 12u

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Jun 11, 2013
2,619
113
Since the season is short I think school takes precedence over TB if it's equal.

That means a School game take precedence over TB game and School practice over a TB practice. However, a game takes precedence over a practice.

If you have a TB game you play over practice.
 
Aug 18, 2018
195
28
In our area no MS is allowed to practice or play on Saturdays, so we don't have this issue. Our school does two teams one for 7 and one for 8 grade. Is there any way to squeeze both in? Ie early am practice and then make TB late morning games?
The more I see of MS the more I realize it's not the be all/end all of SB. I'd say she should be where she will get the most out of SB that Saturday

And don't get me started on the process for being asked to move up to JV/V as an 8th grader.

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Jan 25, 2022
881
93
In our area no MS is allowed to practice or play on Saturdays, so we don't have this issue. Our school does two teams one for 7 and one for 8 grade. Is there any way to squeeze both in? Ie early am practice and then make TB late morning games?
The more I see of MS the more I realize it's not the be all/end all of SB. I'd say she should be where she will get the most out of SB that Saturday

And don't get me started on the process for being asked to move up to JV/V as an 8th grader.

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In my third season affiliated with MS, I've determined that it's where you have three years to take the willing from little league and kids with no experience who want to give it a shot, and give them all enough experience to decide whether they want to continue on to HS so you're mostly sending savages to the next level. If we send the HS 3 or 4 every year, with at least one of them being a competent pitcher, it would be a recipe for success.
 
May 1, 2018
659
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This to me just seems that the middle school will lose all of the middle school players. My DD is in 8th grade, her and two national players are in the school, they would all skip saturday practices and not even think about it.
Just handicapping your MS team cause of a saturday practice when the girls are getting better and better every weekend they play
 
Oct 26, 2019
1,375
113
I just don't want to see school sports die, and travel is killing school sports and VERY much killing little league (and youth leagues in all sports killed elementary school teams), even by the effect of the middle schools compensating for it by giving ultimatums to the 5th and 6th graders that they have to choose between school or LL. We consolidated LL with the other side of the county this year, and actually another county, and only managed to get 37 kids between 10 and 13. LL needs to start in late may though, IMO.

And we have both fall and spring school soccer, which is complete BS.

There are SO many kids here that only have sports to look forward to in life. It's the glue that holds this place together. We will likely be approved for consolidation with the other side of the county in a few months and students will be attending the county high school in 4-5 years. Only one of my girls could possibly attend her senior year there, but I doubt it's ready that fast. But I care about the next group, and the ones after that. The school board is basically at 3-2 in favor right now, and in a few years half the kids in this town won't even make the team at the new school.

Maybe we can start some travel teams then...
I am 100% in agreement with you. I just k or you can’t fight the travel machine. This coach is trying by practicing on Saturdays.

In our area American Legion baseball used to be the king of Summer high school baseball. When travel ball started getting popular we asked American Legion to play their games during the week and leave the weekends free for travel and showcase tournaments. American Legion refused and try to go ahead to head with travel. 15 years later American legion baseball in my area is extinct. If they would’ve just adapted and played during the week and stayed off the weekend they would probably still be around because it was an excellent place for a lot of kids to play and the Legion sponsored the teams so they were free for the kids.
 
May 4, 2014
200
28
So Cal
This right here.

Looking back on this, I have a more cynical view of school ball. The school ball coach typically doesn't develop players. In any "competitive" HS program, that coach is able to select and use the available talent already developed by someone else. While I'm sure there are exceptions, there isn't much personal commitment to the player, yet the school ball coach typically expects unswerving commitment to their program.

Do what's best for your kid. If your kid will be on the school ball bench anyway, go play the tournament instead of going to the Saturday practice. That's really a no-brainer. In retrospect, regardless of where my kid was on the SB depth chart, if the TB coach needed her on Saturday, I'm probably choosing the coach who is invested in my kid over the one that simply uses her.

While I won’t argue that some HS coaches “use” players I will argue that it is NO different than what some travel coaches do.. they recruit the best talent and go use them to win and do zero development… that’s not a HS or TB trait it’s a trait of crappy coaches period… I agree with you in the fact that both coaches are at fault and their inability to compromise means the kid/parent have to do what’s best for themselves… travel coaches shouldn’t demand their players to make their team a priority during off season but the MS coach shouldn’t be demanding weekend practices be mandatory…


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Aug 17, 2019
89
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Good for you...I mean it. Your situation is why I put a qualification in my statement about developing players.

However, at the other end of the spectrum, there sits the gigantic high school in a metropolitan area filled with kids that someone else made into solid ball players by the time they showed up for tryouts. Well over 20 kids for 8th grade and, if you're not already known, you need to display some substantial ability at the two-day tryout or you're going home. If you're a Rec player, you'd better be a REALLY good Rec player because you're competing with kids who might play 100+ games per year.

The HC has been there for some 20 years, has won state championships, and is always competitive. However, he's really nothing special; ANY competent parent travel ball coach (or an assistant) could do the same thing with that very deep player pool that comes ready-made. Despite the fact that he really pisses some people off, others bring their kids into the district so they can play HS ball here. A couple of his assistants are pretty good with hitting and pitching lessons, but HC doesn't do much other than preside over practices and games.
Somewhere in the middle of the spectrum you have a similar gigantic high school with a deep pool of talent but the HC is an employee of the school (district rules). Doesn't know softball, doesn't know how to run a practice. Talent is wasted during the season.
 
Dec 19, 2021
259
43
I don't like "right" and "wrong" here, but I do think the MS coach is making a poor decision. The TB tournament is going to provide way more to the player than a MS practice. Not even close unless that player isnt seeing game time in TB. I applaud the TB coach for having a good attitude about missing pool play. MS in our district only has a quick Saturday tourney and a seven game season and....wait for it.... a pitching machine. Most schools in our district dont have ready-made pitchers, and walk-fests do nobody any good, so thats what we have. Both DDs pitch, so they were kind of steamed... Oh, well.

I really do want school ball to take precedence, but games are priority over practice. Our situation is a little odd. We are the jumbo HS with a very good softball program, while the MS team was mostly rec or new to softball with a few TB players, and only one other school.had more. Most are made up of girls new to the sport. Practices at MS were mostly pointless, lots of social hour, while the HS practices have been excellent, being run by experienced people that know their stuff.
 

Strike2

Allergic to BS
Nov 14, 2014
2,044
113
While I won’t argue that some HS coaches “use” players I will argue that it is NO different than what some travel coaches do.. they recruit the best talent and go use them to win and do zero development… that’s not a HS or TB trait it’s a trait of crappy coaches period… I agree with you in the fact that both coaches are at fault and their inability to compromise means the kid/parent have to do what’s best for themselves… travel coaches shouldn’t demand their players to make their team a priority during off season but the MS coach shouldn’t be demanding weekend practices be mandatory…


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No argument that some travel coaches do the same thing, but you get to choose your travel coach.

For that prospective HS ball player who has been at it since age 5, SOMEONE developed her playing skills and, where I live, it wasn't the local HS coach. In the scenario I outlined, if I need to choose between the TB coach who DID develop her and the HS coach who just wants to borrow her for awhile, I know who I'd support.
 
May 10, 2021
149
43
So glad that year is over - YMMV but for us 7th grade school ball was horrible. A super bloated roster (18-20 girls) - most of which had no experience at all and were looking for something fun to do after school. They had a soccer coach for a softball coach who told them so many incorrect things I lost count. Watching practice was painful. DD (not a pitcher) was the only girl with pitching experience and needed a day off for lessons/practice - he took away her captainship after agreeing to give her the day for lessons and instead of being honest made up some bologna about only wanting one 7th grade captain. If I had it to do over again I would have DD skip 7th grade ball and stick with her travel team - there was absolutely NO good that came from it and it annoyed her TB coach.
This is great advice. Most MS teams are about developing players and playing that bloated roster. This is the traditional argument of school ball versus travel ball. There are honest engaged opinions about what direction the schools should go. It really depends on your specific school and their program.

I empathize with your situation and this team was not set up for travel players. It is a different world. Some coaches are like this and prefer attendance and effort over missing practice for individualized lessons. Maybe the coach cant afford the lessons and maybe the non travel kids cant either. What we may see as getting superior instruction the coach may see as getting special treatment. If that's the case as it appears its not a good fit for you or your DD.

Our 8th grade team has a mix of travel and non-travel players. One thing I have noticed is travel players and their parents don't want to be told NO and that includes ME. God forbid my DD has to sit a few innings while Suzy gets some playing time in middle school. Some coaches play their best 9 and others play everyone. My DD is the #3 pitcher on the MS club and #1 on her travel team. How can she help this team be successful when not in the circle?

Travel players are dedicated and playing with others for '"fun" usually doesn't go well in my experience.
 

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