Middle School vs. 12u

[Lance Steckler]

What do you all consider developing players?

I'm a middle school assistant, and we're a small town that has no travel kids in softball at any level. But we had the field open for voluntary sessions almost every weeknight the entire summer. I dedicated my entire summer to my kids and any of the other MS/HS or 5th grade girls who wanted to come out. We held hitting and pitching nights once a week the entire fall and winter. We taught a few pitching from scratch. I'll be offering the same to our LL players. Two of us on the MS staff coached a spring LL team and assisted with a fall ball little league team, just to get some of these kids game experience.

Our HS coach was standing on the field with us on opening day of LL and spent half his summer on the field with me for open workouts. He coaches one of my girls. I coached his. My MS head coach was the HS baseball coach several years ago when his son played. His daughter is on our team.

Laat season MS was mercy ruled in almost eveey game. It was the same for the high school. Every single one of us was new in our positions. I had barely ever coached at all. We refused to put our kids through that again.

But this is just how it should be. We are very involved in development here. Dedicated, even. We know who is coming up from LL and what their potential is, and truly provide ANY kid (experienced or not) around here the opportunity to learn and develop. I dont understand why any coach who wants to win games and teach the kids about working toward success in life wouldn't do the same. Almost every program around here does something similar.

All of that dedication is the 'unicorn' of school ball.

 

[PJR202]

All of that dedication is the 'unicorn' of school ball.

I'll take that ...lol. It may just be because of the size of the town. We have a total of about 1,700 kids in MS, HS and three elementary schools. We have 8 sports plus band and academics and maybe other stuff. We're stretched super thin but we have pride, and in most sports we aren't anyone's gimme game.

When you're this small, your kids don't have much else to do that wouldn't eventually put them in jail. The home life of so many of my players is so upsetting to me, and I can't identify with it. But if I can help make it better, I'll do it. We want them to look forward to playing ball, and we want them to get addicted to the feeling of achievement.

 

[Lance Steckler]

school district i live in averages about 700per grade (bunch of small schools, 2 7-8 grade buildings, 1 9th grade and 1 high school). Big school lots of players to chose from.

 

[KrisHur]

So glad that year is over - YMMV but for us 7th grade school ball was horrible. A super bloated roster (18-20 girls) - most of which had no experience at all and were looking for something fun to do after school. They had a soccer coach for a softball coach who told them so many incorrect things I lost count. Watching practice was painful. DD (not a pitcher) was the only girl with pitching experience and needed a day off for lessons/practice - he took away her captainship after agreeing to give her the day for lessons and instead of being honest made up some bologna about only wanting one 7th grade captain. If I had it to do over again I would have DD skip 7th grade ball and stick with her travel team - there was absolutely NO good that came from it and it annoyed her TB coach.

 

[PJR202]

So glad that year is over - YMMV but for us 7th grade school ball was horrible. A super bloated roster (18-20 girls) - most of which had no experience at all and were looking for something fun to do after school. They had a soccer coach for a softball coach who told them so many incorrect things I lost count. Watching practice was painful. DD (not a pitcher) was the only girl with pitching experience and needed a day off for lessons/practice - he took away her captainship after agreeing to give her the day for lessons and instead of being honest made up some bologna about only wanting one 7th grade captain. If I had it to do over again I would have DD skip 7th grade ball and stick with her travel team - there was absolutely NO good that came from it and it annoyed her TB coach.

That sounds a lot like us last year. Bloated (21), inexperienced, one savage kid with experience at T-ball and playing baseball with the boys (and smoking most of them) in little league because there was no softball LL at the time. We took beating after beating, and had major inter-personal issues in the dugout. It was exhausting.

This year, we had tryouts, a roster of 14, new leadership and one of our rules is "if you have private lessons, they take priority over practice. You'll get more out of the one on one work."

The impact the tryouts had on the girls was unexpected. Some of the ones we weren't looking forward to seeing again didn't even show up for fear of not making the team. We only cut two, but the ones that made it felt real pride about it. Everyone is going full steam. We have actual outfielders now. It's amazing.

 

[PJR202]

I agree with school taking precedent in season. Where I live we play middle school softball in the fall which works out pretty well with travel ball. The kids are obviously going to have to make a choice. If I’m a kid on the bench with little chance to play I’m probably missing this Saturday practice, but if I’m a starter I’m probably gonna go. This is why I think the middle school coach set himself up for failure by practicing on Saturday at all. It forces the kids into a tough decision

I just don't want to see school sports die, and travel is killing school sports and VERY much killing little league (and youth leagues in all sports killed elementary school teams), even by the effect of the middle schools compensating for it by giving ultimatums to the 5th and 6th graders that they have to choose between school or LL. We consolidated LL with the other side of the county this year, and actually another county, and only managed to get 37 kids between 10 and 13. LL needs to start in late may though, IMO.

And we have both fall and spring school soccer, which is complete BS.

There are SO many kids here that only have sports to look forward to in life. It's the glue that holds this place together. We will likely be approved for consolidation with the other side of the county in a few months and students will be attending the county high school in 4-5 years. Only one of my girls could possibly attend her senior year there, but I doubt it's ready that fast. But I care about the next group, and the ones after that. The school board is basically at 3-2 in favor right now, and in a few years half the kids in this town won't even make the team at the new school.

Maybe we can start some travel teams then...

 

[NJZoo]

I just don't want to see school sports die, and travel is killing school sports and VERY much killing little league (and youth leagues in all sports killed elementary school teams), even by the effect of the middle schools compensating for it by giving ultimatums to the 5th and 6th graders that they have to choose between school or LL. We consolidated LL with the other side of the county this year, and actually another county, and only managed to get 37 kids between 10 and 13. LL needs to start in late may though, IMO.

And we have both fall and spring school soccer, which is complete BS.

There are SO many kids here that only have sports to look forward to in life. It's the glue that holds this place together. We will likely be approved for consolidation with the other side of the county in a few months and students will be attending the county high school in 4-5 years. Only one of my girls could possibly attend her senior year there, but I doubt it's ready that fast. But I care about the next group, and the ones after that. The school board is basically at 3-2 in favor right now, and in a few years half the kids in this town won't even make the team at the new school.

Maybe we can start some travel teams then...

I definitely understand your concerns, and I think that they are certainly valid. We need strong rec/school sports to help expose more girls to more players and increase the talent pool. With that said, I think the answer is better cooperation with local travel and club teams, not an either/or approach. How great would it be if the teams worked together to coordinate practice/game schedules so that more kids could play on multiple teams? If the club teams invited younger girls to tournaments, if high school teams made their schedules available to club teams so that girls could go watch those games. There is so much opportunity to grow the sport, but unfortunately people treat softball like a zero sum game where they have to protect their fiefdom.

 

[radness]

Anytime school activities 'time'
cross over into individuals activities 'time'
will force people to prioritize what fits better for each individual.
Aka choices

For some people the school activity that includes everybody gets to play all the time sounds more like fun with school Chums. Is very different than a family who is paying to play on a travel ball team and having a further commitment that may go beyond everybody gets to play no matter what.

IMO long-term time commitments take priority over short time activities.

For example if somebody was going to hitting or pitching or catching lessons during the week, would not stop going to those lessons for three months just because of middle school ball. If the MS coach needs everybody there five days a week... that means that coach is excluding players who have longer-term commitment elsewhere. With that think the Middle School coach is being short-sighted.

Saturday is over extending school 'time' for many folks.

 

[Strike2]

What do you all consider developing players?

I'm a middle school assistant, and we're a small town that has no travel kids in softball at any level. But we had the field open for voluntary sessions almost every weeknight the entire summer. I dedicated my entire summer to my kids and any of the other MS/HS or 5th grade girls who wanted to come out. We held hitting and pitching nights once a week the entire fall and winter. We taught a few pitching from scratch. I'll be offering the same to our LL players. Two of us on the MS staff coached a spring LL team and assisted with a fall ball little league team, just to get some of these kids game experience.

Our HS coach was standing on the field with us on opening day of LL and spent half his summer on the field with me for open workouts. He coaches one of my girls. I coached his. My MS head coach was the HS baseball coach several years ago when his son played. His daughter is on our team.

Laat season MS was mercy ruled in almost eveey game. It was the same for the high school. Every single one of us was new in our positions. I had barely ever coached at all. We refused to put our kids through that again.

But this is just how it should be. We are very involved in development here. Dedicated, even. We know who is coming up from LL and what their potential is, and truly provide ANY kid (experienced or not) around here the opportunity to learn and develop. I dont understand why any coach who wants to win games and teach the kids about working toward success in life wouldn't do the same. Almost every program around here does something similar.

Good for you...I mean it. Your situation is why I put a qualification in my statement about developing players.

However, at the other end of the spectrum, there sits the gigantic high school in a metropolitan area filled with kids that someone else made into solid ball players by the time they showed up for tryouts. Well over 20 kids for 8th grade and, if you're not already known, you need to display some substantial ability at the two-day tryout or you're going home. If you're a Rec player, you'd better be a REALLY good Rec player because you're competing with kids who might play 100+ games per year.

The HC has been there for some 20 years, has won state championships, and is always competitive. However, he's really nothing special; ANY competent parent travel ball coach (or an assistant) could do the same thing with that very deep player pool that comes ready-made. Despite the fact that he really pisses some people off, others bring their kids into the district so they can play HS ball here. A couple of his assistants are pretty good with hitting and pitching lessons, but HC doesn't do much other than preside over practices and games.

 

[PJR202]

Good for you...I mean it. Your situation is why I put a qualification in my statement about developing players.

However, at the other end of the spectrum, there sits the gigantic high school in a metropolitan area filled with kids that someone else made into solid ball players by the time they showed up for tryouts. Well over 20 kids for 8th grade and, if you're not already known, you need to display some substantial ability at the two-day tryout or you're going home. If you're a Rec player, you'd better be a REALLY good Rec player because you're competing with kids who might play 100+ games per year.

The HC has been there for some 20 years, has won state championships, and is always competitive. However, he's really nothing special; ANY competent parent travel ball coach (or an assistant) could do the same thing with that very deep player pool that comes ready-made. Despite the fact that he really pisses some people off, others bring their kids into the district so they can play HS ball here. A couple of his assistants are pretty good with hitting and pitching lessons, but HC doesn't do much other than preside over practices and games.

That makes more sense. The travel teams around here that i'm familiar with don't play that much, and a lot of them only practice like once a week. again though, we aren't in a hot area like that. This entire county's population is only 26,000. There are a few others within an hour or so, but we're literally talking about several counties in multiple states (tri state area) competing for spots on maybe three teams at each age level. In a bigger scenario I would be fine with making a small consolation for travel players though.