Metrics of a Stolen Base...

[canyonjoe]

Why is the pitch calling lacking? You're not allowed to throw off speed with a runner on first??? Batter was at 0-1 and it seems like the pitch call was low and away based upon DD's move out during the pitch.

I don't know, seems like a pretty good pitch call considering the count..

Totally agree. If they pick the right to pitch to run on they'll likely get a stolen base. While the pitcher has to worry about the runner the focus should always be on getting the batter out. While every play (or more likely their parent) cares about stats the purpose is to win the game.

 

[NJZoo]

That's a cardinal sin in baseball. Don't make the first or third out at third base. I wonder if the same applies in softball?

Funny you mention that. In our last tournament of the fall we were down 4-0 in the last inning. My daughter led off the inning with a long drive left that went to the fence. She got 1/2 of the way to third and put on the breaks and went back to second. Our 3rd base coach was furious! "I told you to go to 3rd, when I tell you something you listen!" Now, my daughter is a pretty fast runner, so I was a little surprised and upset that she didn't go for 3, because I thought she would make it. We end up with a strike out, pop out and ground out to end the game, so it didn't matter.

After the game my daughter (13) starts crying because she got yelled at. "Dad, I didn't think I could make it and I didn't want to make an out at 3rd and ruin our chance to score." What could I say, other than, you did the right thing and I'm proud of you. I understand that it's on the coach if she gets thrown out, and I told her that. To the coach's credit, before we left she came up and apologized for yelling at her - told her that she's fast enough to make it and she trusted her either way.

 

[canyonjoe]

Funny you mention that. In our last tournament of the fall we were down 4-0 in the last inning. My daughter led off the inning with a long drive left that went to the fence. She got 1/2 of the way to third and put on the breaks and went back to second. Our 3rd base coach was furious! "I told you to go to 3rd, when I tell you something you listen!" Now, my daughter is a pretty fast runner, so I was a little surprised and upset that she didn't go for 3, because I thought she would make it. We end up with a strike out, pop out and ground out to end the game, so it didn't matter.

After the game my daughter (13) starts crying because she got yelled at. "Dad, I didn't think I could make it and I didn't want to make an out at 3rd and ruin our chance to score." What could I say, other than, you did the right thing and I'm proud of you. I understand that it's on the coach if she gets thrown out, and I told her that. To the coach's credit, before we left she came up and apologized for yelling at her - told her that she's fast enough to make it and she trusted her either way.

If I'm coaching 3rd and I'm waiving you to come and you don't I'm not going to be happy. If you get thrown out it's my fault. The adage to not make the last out at 3rd is sort of sound but there is also a huge benefit to having a runner on 3rd in a close game. Still the coach shouldn't have yelled but at least she owned up and apologized.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

Funny you mention that. In our last tournament of the fall we were down 4-0 in the last inning. My daughter led off the inning with a long drive left that went to the fence. She got 1/2 of the way to third and put on the breaks and went back to second. Our 3rd base coach was furious! "I told you to go to 3rd, when I tell you something you listen!" Now, my daughter is a pretty fast runner, so I was a little surprised and upset that she didn't go for 3, because I thought she would make it. We end up with a strike out, pop out and ground out to end the game, so it didn't matter.

After the game my daughter (13) starts crying because she got yelled at. "Dad, I didn't think I could make it and I didn't want to make an out at 3rd and ruin our chance to score." What could I say, other than, you did the right thing and I'm proud of you. I understand that it's on the coach if she gets thrown out, and I told her that. To the coach's credit, before we left she came up and apologized for yelling at her - told her that she's fast enough to make it and she trusted her either way.

That balls in front of her so I would leave that to her discretion (I would have held her at 2B while down four). The base coach is there to be their eyes when they can't see the ball (as they are running). On my team, we aren't building robots. Your daughter on my team would have been told before the at-bat she is one of four runs we need to score this inning, be smart.

Coaches that think they are puppet masters on the basepath are irritating. You run faster when you aren't watching the ball but taking a quick glance to gather information is fine. Base coaches are more like consultants on my team. Everyone is working towards the same goal.

There definitely isn't any yelling during the game by coaches (at individual players).

Just a different perspective.

 

[NJZoo]

If I'm coaching 3rd and I'm waiving you to come and you don't I'm not going to be happy. If you get thrown out it's my fault. The adage to not make the last out at 3rd is sort of sound but there is also a huge benefit to having a runner on 3rd in a close game. Still the coach shouldn't have yelled but at least she owned up and apologized.

I def understand it being on the coach if you make it or not. However, I don't think the advantage of being on 2rd vs 2nd is that big. An average runner will likely score on a base hit. Plus, it's much easier to steal/advance on at 14u and below. So, it's probably a 40% chance and a runner on 2nd will end up on 3rd anyway.

That balls in front of her so I would leave that to her discretion (I would have held her at 2B while down four). The base coach is there to be their eyes when they can't see the ball (as they are running). On my team, we aren't building robots. Your daughter on my team would have been told before the at-bat she is one of four runs we need to score this inning, be smart.

Coaches that think they are puppet masters on the basepath are irritating. You run faster when you aren't watching the ball but taking a quick glance to gather information is fine. Base coaches are more like consultants on my team. Everyone is working towards the same goal.

There definitely isn't any yelling during the game by coaches (at individual players).

Just a different perspective.

I'm 99% of the time the guy who says, if the coach says jump, you say "how high?". But to bring it back to the original point. The difference between being on 2nd with no outs and being on 3rd with no outs in softball is just not big enough to be overly aggressive trying to get to 3rd (IMHO). Especially at 14U and under. I would bet there is at least a 60% chance that you can take 3rd on a wild pitch or outright steal during the next at bat. Plus, you still don't even need a hit to score from 2nd.

 

[Rolling Hard]

Why is the pitch calling lacking? You're not allowed to throw off speed with a runner on first??? Batter was at 0-1 and it seems like the pitch call was low and away based upon DD's move out during the pitch.

I don't know, seems like a pretty good pitch call considering the count..

Maybe there wasn't a lot of history but 0-1 is a good time to pitch out. I saw pitch as off and in.

 

[Rolling Hard]

Funny you mention that. In our last tournament of the fall we were down 4-0 in the last inning. My daughter led off the inning with a long drive left that went to the fence. She got 1/2 of the way to third and put on the breaks and went back to second. Our 3rd base coach was furious! "I told you to go to 3rd, when I tell you something you listen!" Now, my daughter is a pretty fast runner, so I was a little surprised and upset that she didn't go for 3, because I thought she would make it. We end up with a strike out, pop out and ground out to end the game, so it didn't matter.

After the game my daughter (13) starts crying because she got yelled at. "Dad, I didn't think I could make it and I didn't want to make an out at 3rd and ruin our chance to score." What could I say, other than, you did the right thing and I'm proud of you. I understand that it's on the coach if she gets thrown out, and I told her that. To the coach's credit, before we left she came up and apologized for yelling at her - told her that she's fast enough to make it and she trusted her either way.

Runner should have peeked at coach about 2/3 the way to 2nd base and decision was the coach's there and then. Coach's next call was "down" or "on the base".

 

[canyonjoe]

I def understand it being on the coach if you make it or not. However, I don't think the advantage of being on 2rd vs 2nd is that big. An average runner will likely score on a base hit. Plus, it's much easier to steal/advance on at 14u and below. So, it's probably a 40% chance and a runner on 2nd will end up on 3rd anyway.

I'm 99% of the time the guy who says, if the coach says jump, you say "how high?". But to bring it back to the original point. The difference between being on 2nd with no outs and being on 3rd with no outs in softball is just not big enough to be overly aggressive trying to get to 3rd (IMHO). Especially at 14U and under. I would bet there is at least a 60% chance that you can take 3rd on a wild pitch or outright steal during the next at bat. Plus, you still don't even need a hit to score from 2nd.

I'm not debating the merits of the coach sending her, but I really think the player should listen to the coach (if the coach is telling you to go). I totally disagree that at 14U you can just take 3rd easily on the next batter. Good teams don't let many steal third and don't have a lot of wild pitches at 14U.

 

[_MIA_]

For D3 softball, RE is about 1/2 run better with girl on 3rd with no outs vs girl on 2b with no outs. Of course the RE of nobody on with 1 out is 1.3 runs less than girl on second with no outs….

 

[daywalkerdad]

I would think it mostly has to do with it's their leadoff batter who rarely gets thrown out? Sub 2.6sec base to base is going to steal a whole bunch

Top NFL 20 yard splits 2.5 sec. would bet sub 2.6= leaving early.