- Apr 17, 2019
- 194
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Wait when you say longtoss do you mean over hand?
They long toss I was referring to and we have always done, are walk throughs or run throughs moving back 5 feet at a time.
Almost what abbott does here
Experiences with speed cords
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They long toss I was referring to and we have always done, are walk throughs or run throughs moving back 5 feet at a time.
Almost what abbott does here
- May 17, 2012
- 2,806
- 113
I mean underhand. Some of the principals from baseball (overhand) long toss can be used.
Long toss means really long distances so you will need the space. Get a bucket of balls and an open field for best results. Someone else posted a useful chart for the distance a player can long toss and actually pitching speed (below). If you want your daughter to throw 60+ then she needs to long toss north of 150' (roughly).
Not sure who figured out the math (props to them), but I have found this to be highly accurate (+/- 1 mph) when cross-checked with a Pocket Radar:
75’=45 mph
100’=50 mph
125’=55 mph
150’=60 mph
175’=65 mph
As you can see, every 5’ is the equivalent of about 1 mph
- May 17, 2012
- 2,806
- 113
That is it but she isn't throwing it far enough away (probably for video purposes). I like how she walked through prior to release and was under control.
I think you could start walking back 5 feet when you start to warm up. Change is slow but your distance will increase if you work at it.
- Apr 17, 2019
- 194
- 28
Ok just making sure, the other thread made it sound like it was over hand.
- May 17, 2012
- 2,806
- 113
@riseball seems to be a big advocate of long toss so pay attention to his comments. His daughter pitched at a high level if I recall.
Also, if you haven't already (and a review is always good if you have) read the sticky in this sub-forum from Java about Drive Mechanics, particularly the first few pages where he's discussing the power line, ground force resistance and band work. He discusses some of the words like "explode" which you used and puts them in context of a solid foundation as well.
While many who are far more accomplished at this stuff than I, will talk about how the majority of pitching speed comes from the arm circle, I feel given that the entire motion starts from the ground up, getting the footwork right and repeatable is important. Timing and synchronizing that arm circle/brush with a strong front side is a difference maker and some of our DD's who pitch need that extra ooomph!
Nothing wrong with working on both the legs and the arms at the same time. II's not like working on the arm circle is so complicated that you need to devote every moment of your practice to it until you have it mastered. Not to mention it would be quite boring for the kid and you might lose her for lack of interest along the way.
I agree that lower body mechanics are important. You can't pitch D1 without good lower body mechanics.
HOWEVER: Is this a kid getting ready to play D1? Or is she getting ready for a 12U-B team?
Parents can go down the rabbit hole of trying to perfect lower body mechanics before the kid can throw the ball.
Good lower body mechanics isn't going to compensate for poor upper body mechanics.
What we really need is a video of the DD so that we can see what she needs to work on.
SlowCelica has been around for awhile so (I'm assuming here that) his kid isn't a total newbie (could be wrong). If his kid can't yet "throw the ball" as you question then yes, by all means he's got the cart before the horse. I am not in any way suggesting that good lower body mechanics will compensate for poor upper body mechanics but I certainly believe they work together.
Also, not every good pitcher chooses to go DI, my kid just got done with a very solid season pitching her DIII team to a conference tourney and into the final game (which sadly they lost). She chose to go DIII for a variety of reasons. That being said, I also believe there are DI (DII, DIII, softball pitchers who could benefit from improved lower body mechanics.
Honestly, I didn't get the impression he was really looking to correct bad mechanics but rather seeking ways to enhance them. Would you agree that long toss is a way to enhance good upper body mechanics? Does it also enhance lower body mechanics? Parents can certainly go down all kinds of rabbit holes and waste a lot of time, money and energy...
I'm over=sensitive.
There is a kid whose dad has gone completely nuts over improving her lower body mechanics, and he has almost ruined her. She has forgotten how to throw the ball.
As to long toss...i look at this stuff differently. A kid who'l wants to be good should do all kinds of different things in addition to throwing from 43 feet.
There are two ways to do long toss...my kids did both. The first is to play a game. If she threw a strike, she took one step back... throw a ball, she takes one step forward. The second is to have them throw from CF to home. A good dad can make these challenging and fun...and the kid is working on all kinds of different things.
in order to do both, she has to vary her mechanics... which she has to learn to throw different pitches and to move the ball around.
They also pitched behind the back, blind folded, on one knee, between the legs, etc. Geez...they were out there for an hour a day four days a week. Have some fun.
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