Dropped 3rd strike - runner at 1st -less than 2 out

[llfriedel]

Same play in softball games - HS game in Ohio and Ala.-Ky. game ............ Runner at 1st - less than 2 outs .......... batter swings at 3rd strike, and misses ball that bounces into catcher's glove .............. BATTER IS OUT but both batters run toward 1st ............. in HS game catcher hit the runner with the throw - in college game catcher threw into RF .......... both runners at 1st went to 3rd, and eventually scored the game winning run ......... both batters were eventually ruled out .......

Shouldn't the HP ump loudly announce and signal that the batter is out in that situation ? I umpired softball several years, and that is how our association handled that play .....

Did the umps in the games I described have the authority to put the base runner back at 1st, for creating an unsportsmanlike (confusing) situation ?

I do understand that the catchers needed to be smarter

Thank you,

Larry Friedel - irish7171@yahoo.com

 

[Comp]

Defense is responsible for knowing the situation and making the appropriate play which is not on the retired batter. Now, if the throw to first was an attempt to retire the runner returning to first base then the call would be interference by a retired player, otherwise it's a live ball.

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[texasheat]

Catcher should know better. Can't believe a P5 college catcher would try to throw down. Mind blowing. The lack of softball IQ by some of these college girls is unbelievable. That's poor coaching.

 

[EdLovrich]

EDIT 12.17.3.1 added for completeness

NCAA

12.17.3.1 An offensive player, who no longer has status (a retired member of the offense or a player who has scored), may not interfere with a defensive player making a play on an active runner.

12.17.3.2 Once the pitch has crossed home plate, offensive team personnel may not interfere with a fielder who has a reasonable chance to make a play on a thrown or pitched ball within the field of play. EFFECT—(12.17.3.1 and 12.17.3.2)—The ball is dead, and the runner closest to home plate at the time of the interference shall be declared out. Each base runner must return to the last base legally touched at the time of the interference, unless forced to advance. Exception: If the batter struck out and is still in the batter’s box when she interferes with the catcher’s attempt to throw out a base runner, the base runner being played on, not the runner closest to home plate, is out.

Unless I am mistaken. Batter is out (K) and runner from 1st is also out on the interference. (if the throw was a quality throw). Other runners return.

NFHS 8-6-16c After being declared out or after scoring, a runner interferes with a defensive player's opportunity to make a play on another runner. A runner continuing to run and drawing a throw may be considered a form of interference. This does not apply to the batter-runner running on the dropped third strike rule.
(Bold added for discussion purposes) Since the batter was properly out and not running on the dropped third strike rule this exception would not apply.

Penalty Art 16 The ball is dead and the runner closest to home plate at the time of the interference shall be declared out. Each other runner must return to the last base touched at the time of the interference.

Same as the NCAA ruling. Batter out (K) runner from 1st out on the interference, other runners return. (Again, subject to a quality throw)

 

[EdLovrich]

The logic behind this is that the offense interfered by inducing the throw. Yes the defense should have known the situation, but the offense should have as well. Why was the BR heading to 1st unless attempting to induce a throw? The rule's intent is to protect the defense from the actions of the offense, the same as any other interference.

 

[EdLovrich]

Can't believe a P5 college catcher would try to throw down.

Back pick perhaps?

 

[EdLovrich]

That's poor coaching.

Actually, it is great coaching, The batter is already out, but the defense can get the interference call simply by making a quality throw to first that isn't fielded cleanly.

 

[Comp]

Actually, it is great coaching, The batter is already out, but the defense can get the interference call simply by making a quality throw to first that isn't fielded cleanly.

That is not true. Every ruleset I am aware of has case plays that say the defense is responsible for knowing the situation and making the appropriate play. I'm not bringing NCAA into any discussion unless the question is specific to NCAA. Their rules and rulings are far different than every other ruleset.

If there is no possible play at first base because the batter is already out, how exactly has being hit by a throw interfered with a play? It hasn't because there is no play to be made. As I have already be stated, the only way this can be considered interference is if there was a play being made on a runner at first going back to first base. USA, NFHS and I'm pretty sure usssa all have case plays saying it is the defenses responsibility to know the situation and make the appropriate play.

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[EdLovrich]

@Comp R1 at the start of the play, there was a potential play on that runner. And OP specifically asked about the Ala-Ky game.

 

[Comp]

I read the original as asking a question about a HS game but used description of a college game, but I see they asked about both.

Also cannot tell exactly what the post is saying, "both batters run toward first'? There is only 1 batter. But, that being said, even if the runner was going back to first base, airmailing the ball into right field is not interference. USA rules and clarifications.

Play: With one out and R1 on 1B, B3 swings at the ball for strike three and the catcher drops the ball. B3 runs toward 1B because the catcher dropped the ball in a) the catcher throws the ball wildly to 1B and the ball goes into RF, b) the catcher throws to pick off R1 but hits the retired B3 in the back with the ball.
Ruling: (Rule 8, Section 7P EFFECT: When, after being declared out or after scoring, an offensive player interferes with a defensive player’s opportunity to make a play on another runner. EFFECT: The ball is dead. The runner closest to home plate at the time of the interference is out. All runners not out must return to the last base touched at the time of the interference.
NOTE: A runner continuing to run and drawing a throw may be considered
a form of interference. This does not applyto the batter-runner running on
the dropped third strike rule.)
It is the responsibility of both the catcher and the batter to know the game situation. The dropped third strike rule is not in effect in this situation; therefore the batter-runner is not running under the dropped third strike rule. If the umpire judges the action of the retired batter to have hindered, impeded, or confused the defense, this is interference. Simply running toward 1B when the dropped third strike rule is not in effect does not constitute interference. With that said in a) if the umpire judged the throw was wild because the catcher made a bad throw, it is not interference. In b) if the umpire judged the thrown ball hitting the retired B3, impeded the defense’s opportunity to execute a play, interference should be called on a retired offensive player and the runner closest to home would be called out as well.