Drive Mechanics

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Jun 7, 2016
275
43
Java,
Thank you for posting the original drill and more importantly, following up with the above. The value of your contributions to us regular folk is incalculable.

PS keep us posted on the progess of your pupil.
 

javasource

6-4-3 = 2
May 6, 2013
1,347
48
Western NY
I had also created google doc files for Drive Mechanics and IR in the Classroom (indexed plus some added bonus material from the discussion). All of the .gifs are embedded in the gdoc files or you can save as HTML so you can open with your browser.
See link for previous post.
https://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/10321-i-r-classroom-4.html#post432165

Wow... I just now happened upon this. Thank You! All my gifs are alive and well. I shall update this thread. Beautiful job with this doc...
 
Mar 20, 2015
174
28
Thanks Java, her back swing in the full motion looks to be about 700. Was it further back before the implementing the drill?
 

javasource

6-4-3 = 2
May 6, 2013
1,347
48
Western NY
Yep. I really don't like anything above 8... so much can potentially be thrown off... like circle plane, arm rotation, timing, posture, drive etc. I really go for that initial overlap - as I know some of these kids will be told to "come out of their glove" in college... and I don't want that transition to screw up their drive or timing (read: Speed, Spin, & Spot).

One REALLY IMPORTANT NOTE:

If the arm backswings beyond 8... there is a 99.99999999% chance they have screwed the drill up. The WHOLE POINT of the drill is to get the arm motion adjusted... in relation to the drive... so that the legs get out "in front" of the arms. I already know endless people that try this drill are going to screw the pooch when it comes to the initial overlap... so the SOLUTION IS IN THE DETAILS. Don't skip or alter the drill... do it exactly as described/shown, otherwise you're wasting time (something we all don't have enough of).

The backswing may feel AWFUL... and that's the point. Don't skip this very important rushed feeling they will encounter... it's the whole point and the timing adjustment.
 
Last edited:
Nov 25, 2012
1,437
83
USA
Knightsb,

First and foremost, I’m looking for a ‘Posture Point’. So at TOB, I shoot for no bend at the waist… as by doing so, reaching a good posture at TOC and throughout the pitch is much easier. Secondly, I want the weight shift from stride to drive to be a quick and efficient transfer. I’m not a huge fan of rolling starts… or gradual shifts in weight from leg to leg… as I believe this creates timing issues… and I find that most pitchers end up addressing this with a much longer backswing… as opposed to accelerating the transfer of weight. To me, the latter is better…

In this last post of yours, you used two of my favorite model pitchers. In all three examples, pay attention to the stride leg during the backswing… it stays straight while the pitcher uses their head position to generate forward momentum. They use a bend at the waist to do so… I’m ok with this to a certain degree in beginners… but as long as the bend does not prevent them from getting vertical/straightened (see Amanda, above). If they bend at the waist… I’d prefer that is assists them in getting the lean started.

Truth is, many younger girls aren’t going to display nearly as much athleticism and strength to overcome a severe bend… so less is better when beginning – and I’m a huge believer in minimizing unnecessary motions. I usually find that as a girl matures into drive mechanics, the resulting coordination and strength that develops, usually results in the pitcher making a series of timing adjustments with their pre-motion. If they transfer weight efficiently already, this usually results in a lengthening of their backswing. This is not a rule in any shape or form… just an observation over the years. As such, I limit backswings and bending when working with a younger girl to an ‘as needed’ basis.

Pay special attention to the heel of the stride foot in your latest gifs. It stays on the ground until backswing peak while the leg remains straight. This is the stretch I’m referring to… of the Achilles and the calf muscle. This is one of the recently discussed (activations) that are necessary… Anyway, you’ll find that at the moment the heel lifts off the ground,
1) TOB is reached
2) The DRIVE FOOT SLIGHTLY STEPS FORWARD
3) The hips thrust forward
4) the leg-to-leg transfer of weight immediately happens

So… another long response… but I hope you see why… Hip thrust happens… but I find establishing the lean, the stretch of the heel and the slight step forward with the drive foot… create the hip thrust… BECAUSE… they allow for an efficient and quick transfer of weight/energy from the stride to drive foot.

Is our pitcher, DD, student, etc. trapped in a drive foot prison. IE. The drive foot is still as a statue?? Bump!!
 
Last edited:
Nov 25, 2012
1,437
83
USA
Knightsb,

Finch is like Osterman... you can see their hips actually thrust forward at TOB. Like most top level pitchers, TOB (top of backswing) is their cue to get vertical (that is... spine straightened). Finch is a cool study of this, because you can actually see her drive foot come forward off the plate. This motion... along with the straightening of her spine as she reaches TOB... are what cause that thrust. It's really cool... in that if you freeze frame that gif, you can see the Wall Sprint posture (shin angle, dorsi-flexion, and the lean). This puts her Achilles and calf (stride leg) on stretch... and really helps facilitate getting her ridiculously long stride in motion. Thank you for sharing that .gif... added that one to my collection!

Amanda... on the other hand... utilizes something that I've never really liked... and that I would never recommend for someone newer to pitching... which is that extreme bend at the waist. I encourage a backswing with little to no bend. As you pointed out, she never reaches a straightened spine until later in the pitch. She's almost bent into a 90-degree angle at TOB. Knowing what we do now about the female anatomy and physiology, it's a difficult angle to overcome... Here's a little .gif I threw together.

vzc8wg.gif


1st frame is the bend.
2nd frame is the achilles/calf stretch of the stride leg... you see that the initial bend keeps her about 30-35 degrees from upright...
3rd frame is the sprinters position you asked about. Although she still hasn't straightened her spine, you can see that she's hitting all of the other important angles (IMO)
4th frame is maximum stride extension angle (mentioned in previous posts... this is really important, IMO.
5th frame shows how she was strong enough to get in a good spine angle at TOC (top of circle).
6th frame shows how she has held that angle (very important) at 9 o'clock.
Last frame shows point of release, and her maintaining the proper posture.

Thanks for sharing... hope I answered your questions. ~JS

Bumpity bump bump.

Edit. Well crud, the images in the original post didn't carry over for some reason. Regardless, 3 of the best, Monica, Finch, Cat, all have a false step or gym step which most of us already know. Are you taking advantage of it? if not, you should!
 
Last edited:
Nov 25, 2012
1,437
83
USA
Knightsb,

First and foremost, I’m looking for a ‘Posture Point’. So at TOB, I shoot for no bend at the waist… as by doing so, reaching a good posture at TOC and throughout the pitch is much easier. Secondly, I want the weight shift from stride to drive to be a quick and efficient transfer. I’m not a huge fan of rolling starts… or gradual shifts in weight from leg to leg… as I believe this creates timing issues… and I find that most pitchers end up addressing this with a much longer backswing… as opposed to accelerating the transfer of weight. To me, the latter is better…

In this last post of yours, you used two of my favorite model pitchers. In all three examples, pay attention to the stride leg during the backswing… it stays straight while the pitcher uses their head position to generate forward momentum. They use a bend at the waist to do so… I’m ok with this to a certain degree in beginners… but as long as the bend does not prevent them from getting vertical/straightened (see Amanda, above). If they bend at the waist… I’d prefer that is assists them in getting the lean started.

Truth is, many younger girls aren’t going to display nearly as much athleticism and strength to overcome a severe bend… so less is better when beginning – and I’m a huge believer in minimizing unnecessary motions. I usually find that as a girl matures into drive mechanics, the resulting coordination and strength that develops, usually results in the pitcher making a series of timing adjustments with their pre-motion. If they transfer weight efficiently already, this usually results in a lengthening of their backswing. This is not a rule in any shape or form… just an observation over the years. As such, I limit backswings and bending when working with a younger girl to an ‘as needed’ basis.

Pay special attention to the heel of the stride foot in your latest gifs. It stays on the ground until backswing peak while the leg remains straight. This is the stretch I’m referring to… of the Achilles and the calf muscle. This is one of the recently discussed (activations) that are necessary… Anyway, you’ll find that at the moment the heel lifts off the ground,
1) TOB is reached
2) The DRIVE FOOT SLIGHTLY STEPS FORWARD
3) The hips thrust forward
4) the leg-to-leg transfer of weight immediately happens

So… another long response… but I hope you see why… Hip thrust happens… but I find establishing the lean, the stretch of the heel and the slight step forward with the drive foot… create the hip thrust… BECAUSE… they allow for an efficient and quick transfer of weight/energy from the stride to drive foot.

bump bump bump bump
 
Mar 23, 2011
492
18
Noblseville, IN
Bumpity bump bump.

Edit. Well crud, the images in the original post didn't carry over for some reason. Regardless, 3 of the best, Monica, Finch, Cat, all have a false step or gym step which most of us already know. Are you taking advantage of it? if not, you should!

Be cautious with replicating a small gym step. My DD's gym step is far less than Monica, but gets called for IP 1 to 2x's a tournament... It seems to be that the better you are as a pitcher, the less likely you are to be called for IP's.
 
Mar 23, 2011
492
18
Noblseville, IN
Is our pitcher, DD, student, etc. trapped in a drive foot prison. IE. The drive foot is still as a statue?? Bump!!

The key to getting off the rubber correctly is to have thrust from the middle... The glutes should be thrusting the pitcher forward and NOT the drive leg pushing down through the leg and into the rubber (original link)...

lEAgNw.gif


^^^This the magic key to being able to throw 60+... Lot's of kids will hit 50's with an inferior drive, but if 60+ is the goal, they will need a drive mechanic that thrusts from the middle.

PS - You don't need to have a huge waist bend like above to have thrust, but you definitely need some...
PSS - It's probably more than you think... Near 90 degrees dynamically...
PSSS - If you don't have a thrust based drive, it's probably costing you accuracy as well...
 

javasource

6-4-3 = 2
May 6, 2013
1,347
48
Western NY
The key to getting off the rubber correctly is to have thrust from the middle... The glutes should be thrusting the pitcher forward and NOT the drive leg pushing down through the leg and into the rubber (original link)...

lEAgNw.gif


^^^This the magic key to being able to throw 60+... Lot's of kids will hit 50's with an inferior drive, but if 60+ is the goal, they will need a drive mechanic that thrusts from the middle.

PS - You don't need to have a huge waist bend like above to have thrust, but you definitely need some...
PSS - It's probably more than you think... Near 90 degrees dynamically...
PSSS - If you don't have a thrust based drive, it's probably costing you accuracy as well...

Jryan,

You were very much in my thoughts (well, B was...) when I put this together.

And although I love your illustration above... some kids (and I know you know this better than most) simply cannot overcome the negative position of the hips... in relation to the knee & shoulders. As such, we can displace the hips initially... a la STFG... thus allowing them to utilize a better positioned posterior chain earlier in the motion.

I'd be curious (even if it were offline), if B gave this a go? Hope you are all well, and say hi to her for me!
 

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