Does trend toward early commits affect nationals?

[CoogansBluff]

Was talking with a friend today about PGF nationals and how an organization we know is having trouble getting all its best players to commit to playing them.

It seems like with all the traveling they've done just to get recruited that by the time they're juniors or seniors, the idea of going across country for nationals isn't so appealing, especially if they've already done it once. You get players in August for the express purpose of making a run the next summer, but then they're waffling by summer, wanting to take a break, especially recent grads about to enter college.

I put 'early' commits in the headline here because I wonder if the two are connected. More and more players are committed early. I would think think that the more 'early' commits we're seeing, the more players that will decide they want to cut back their schedules as they get toward graduation. Unless you have a real shot to win it, what's the incentive to travel east coast to California if you've already committed and have played softball in 10 states already?

 

[JAD]

When DD was playing 16U and was not verballed we could not get to PGF Nationals fast enough. Now that she is 18U and verballed I wonder why we are going...plus USSSA Elite and JO Cup are skimming some teams.

 

[CoogansBluff]

When DD was playing 16U and was not verballed we could not get to PGF Nationals fast enough. Now that she is 18U and verballed I wonder why we are going...plus USSSA Elite and JO Cup are skimming some teams.

Yep, that's what I'm talking about. Hearing a lot of that. And it's very understandable. So with the trend toward 8th/9th/10th graders committing, and then all the different organizations skimming teams, I wonder if 18U nationals will mean less and less. Not saying the teams that win those won't be really outstanding, but not sure it's practical to have a national championship in travel fastpitch that every kid dreams of playing every year and winning or doing a little better than before, etc.

 

[55dad]

Our 18U is a very good team and is only traveling out of state twice. Everyone is committed or interested in staying somewhat close to home for school. The girls are having fun and there is no stress.

 

[YOCOACH]

Next year, as a first year 18U team, I'd be very surprised if we traveled more than 3 hours from home (drive-time) for a single tournament and play the rest locally. Usually we'll go to 2-3 overnighters and will travel 5 hours or so at the furthest. At this point, the kids and the parents are pretty much done with the traveling and added expense associated with it.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

Committed players need to play against the talent level they'll face in college. Some teams can do that by staying local and others need to travel for it. Coaches get concerned if there is a noticeable dropoff in the level of competition on a commit's schedule. SoCal teams full of top D1 recruits have plenty of competition locally, however they still travel (e.g. Colorado, TCS/US Nats, etc) for the experience and because the college coaches want to see their commits playing against top competition from around the country as much as possible.

HS grads need to use the summer before college to prepare to compete for playing time in the fall. Players get limited opportunities to show what they can do, so they need to be ready to make the most of a small sample size.

The teams that played in JO Cup last year haven't been contenders at PGF. USSSA Elite is early July, so it will have little impact on PGF and JO Cup. Results from Colorado and other elite events will provide some insight into the relative strength of teams at PGF, JO Cup and USSSA Elite.

 

[riseball]

Committed players need to play against the talent level they'll face in college. Some teams can do that by staying local and others need to travel for it. Coaches get concerned if there is a noticeable dropoff in the level of competition on a commit's schedule. SoCal teams full of top D1 recruits have plenty of competition locally, however they still travel (e.g. Colorado, TCS/US Nats, etc) for the experience and because the college coaches want to see their commits playing against top competition from around the country as much as possible.

HS grads need to use the summer before college to prepare to compete for playing time in the fall. Players get limited opportunities to show what they can do, so they need to be ready to make the most of a small sample size.

The teams that played in JO Cup last year haven't been contenders at PGF. USSSA Elite is early July, so it will have little impact on PGF and JO Cup. Results from Colorado and other elite events will provide some insight into the relative strength of teams at PGF, JO Cup and USSSA Elite.

I agree they should play at the highest level possible as a first step to prepare for college ball. But they also need to understand that even at the highest level of TB play, they are not facing college level talent and have much work to do before they are ready to play at that level. If they head off to college full of themselves because of what they did in TB they are in for a rude awakening. The pine has plenty of TB studs including national players of the year who were sure they were all that and a bag of chips.

 

[Momo'sDad]

...because the college coaches want to see their commits playing against top competition from around the country as much as possible.

That's probably less true for a smaller group of athletes than you might think. Historically, that was the case for the big programs. Some of the best eastern teams will still travel west (and vice-versa), but because of the explosive and rapid growth of SEC softball, many of the eastern schools are quite happy to spend less on recruiting. Why spend 14 working days on the road to recruit 4 players from out west, when you've got equivalent talent within 90 minutes of your campus? The diversity is nice, true, but so is saving money. So instead of taking 4 western players, spend 3 days getting the 1, and then spend another 4 days recruiting VA-to-FL, including eastern TN.

To the OP, I know a small handful of people who care - or even know - who wins the PGF or ASA Nationals. Most parents simply do not care, and I think that helps the players to care less, too. We want to know which teams are going to which showcases and we want to know which colleges are sending scouts to those events. Once a player receives the offer she and her family want, I'm not sure that any national tournament placing holds much significance at all.

If there were a lot fewer teams and less mercenary squads, meaning that more teams would actually have been nurtured and developed to get there, then I believe Nationals would have significant meaning. That's no longer the case, though.

 

[MNDad]

Committed players need to play against the talent level they'll face in college. Some teams can do that by staying local and others need to travel for it. Coaches get concerned if there is a noticeable dropoff in the level of competition on a commit's schedule. SoCal teams full of top D1 recruits have plenty of competition locally, however they still travel (e.g. Colorado, TCS/US Nats, etc) for the experience and because the college coaches want to see their commits playing against top competition from around the country as much as possible.

HS grads need to use the summer before college to prepare to compete for playing time in the fall. Players get limited opportunities to show what they can do, so they need to be ready to make the most of a small sample size.

The teams that played in JO Cup last year haven't been contenders at PGF. USSSA Elite is early July, so it will have little impact on PGF and JO Cup. Results from Colorado and other elite events will provide some insight into the relative strength of teams at PGF, JO Cup and USSSA Elite.

I don't know the full breakdown, but is that the case for all the teams? DD played for the Bullets last year and a former teammate played for the Mustangs. I can't imagine those teams not doing well in PGF prior to that, unless they played ASA maybe.

The reason she played with them was as you said in your first paragraph, to play with and against the caliber of players she'd face in college. Not many teams of that level in MN obviously.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

The teams that played in JO Cup last year haven't been contenders at PGF.

I don't know the full breakdown, but is that the case for all the teams? DD played for the Bullets last year and a former teammate played for the Mustangs. I can't imagine those teams not doing well in PGF prior to that, unless they played ASA maybe.

EC Bullets and Mustangs are both strong orgs, however they've lacked the overall strength to contend for winning PGF. ECB has done better than Mustangs.

EC Bullets: They might have played PGF last year if they had Barnhill.
- 2014: 5th (4-2) w/ Barnhill, lost to annual contenders OCBB Haning (0-3) and Bev Bandits Conroy (0-6).
- 2013: 5th (6-2), lost to Gold Coast Hurricanes (1-8) and TX Glory Shelton (1-4).
- 2012: 9th (5-2), lost 1st game to Corona Angels Tyson (0-2) and WA Ladyhawks (2-8).
- 2011: 17th (2-2), lost to CA Tyson (0-3) and WA Ladyhawks (3-9).

Wichita Mustangs:
- 2014: 17th (2-2), lost to ECB (1-3) and Team N.Florida (0-4).
- 2013: 33rd (1-2), lost to OCBB Haning (0-6) and Jersey Inferno (0-2).
- 2012: 33rd (1-2), lost to Corona Angels Tyson (3-6) and Minors Gold LL (0-6).
- 2011: 13th (4-2), lost to OCBB Haning (6-16) and So Cal Choppers (1-2).

2011-2014 game results are at Premier Girls Fastpitch - teamlist | Pointstreak Sports Technologies.