DD called off her HS coach's pitch....

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Apr 20, 2018
4,581
113
SoCal
I would rather a catcher call time out and have a private discussion rather than shake me off 3 times. Shake off once, coach says stick to the pitch, call time.
I have let catchers call pitches and only interject (call a pitch) 5 or 6 times during the game. Usually the catcher was thinking the same thing.
Most common pitch calling error I see is not throwing inside enough. Pitcher should probably bean one batter per game. That being said, never throw inside to a hitter that steps in the bucket on every pitch.
 
Oct 4, 2018
4,611
113
The pitcher just hollering over "She's crowding the plate" seemed awesome to me. I'm sure it made the coach irate, but it cracked me up (and probably had the intended results).
 

GIMNEPIWO

GIMNEPIWO
Dec 9, 2017
171
43
VA
Back in TB days. Coach called for a rise ball. DD tried shaking it off 3 times. DD knows the batter very well. Coach didn't change the pitch. The ball ended up in the grassy area beyond the LF fence.

HA HA Ha ....In a HS game, a right hand batter was coming up who I knew well ... I told my Pitching Coach, "Whatever you do, don't throw this girl a fastball". ... First pitch she fouls off straight back ... Second pitch she sends deep into left field foul ... Third pitch circled the globe twice and then docked with the International Space Station ... I asked him what that pitch was ? He said "fastball" ... I said to him, I told you not to throw her a fastball ! He said "They were ALL fastballs" ... This is how I got a new Pitching Coach.
 
Sep 15, 2015
98
33
Bottom line is that this should have been discussed prior to having it happen in a game. The pitcher should always feel comfortable shaking off a pitch, and the coach should have a good enough relationship with the players to allow it. If my catcher shook off a pitch I trusted them, and got the explanation after the inning. That said, if the coach had a strict policy of "No shaking off" it is certainly within their rights and should have been clear. I always wanted my pitcher confident in the pitch, so if they weren't I wanted them to shake it off. Occasionally I would call the same pitch because I just wanted to see it in a certain situation.

Agree with this.

DD called all her own games for two years in HS after the coach became exasperated by her shaking off and the delay created by having to signal in a new pitch to the catcher (who did not want any part of a disagreement between coach and pitcher). Now in college, it is back to “we never shake off,” which I know is not the case at a lot of schools. I’ve always felt like this issue just tells you more about the personalities involved than anything else. Some pitchers and coaches (and parents) are control freaks; others are not. Some pitchers just want to execute and would rather not make decisions; others don’t have that mindset. Some coaches cannot stand someone else making “important” decisions; others have an easier time letting go. There’s probably no right or wrong approach for all situations—other than not having an approach and clearly communicating what it is.


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Nov 26, 2010
4,784
113
Michigan
My dd was pitching, maybe 14u. I see the coach signal in the pitch and my dd strikes out the batter with a different pitch. Coach calls over the catcher and my dd and they talk. He laughs and pats the catcher on the back and they go back to playing.

I ask my dd and she says the catcher changed the pitch and told the coach that the batter had barreled that pitch up the previous time and it went foul. She thought the batter was sitting on that same pitch so she signaled for the change up. Coach
Congratulated her for paying attention to the game and for doing the right thing.

And that’s how it should be done.
 

Cannonball

Ex "Expert"
Feb 25, 2009
4,854
113
Why is it that every coach who wants to call a game is a control freak? In college, as from watching an hour or two of college games, rarely, if ever, is a catcher calling the game. Are all of those coaches wrong and the 14U player right?

I have state many times on this site that I tried to teach my catchers how to call games and we set up a system of communication with th pitcher, catcher and myself. However, when I wanted a pitch thrown, there wasn't a question as to what pitch was going to get thrown. I'll attribute that to my years of experience and the fact that I am the one who will be held accountable for how the team does year to year. As I mentioned here once, I had a pitcher shake off pitch selection one time. He thought he was smarter than I. It cost us a state title. With a lead in extra innings, two outs and a 0-2 count, he shook off a change and before I could get out of the dugout threw a fastball to their#4 for a grand slam.
 
Sep 15, 2015
98
33
Why is it that every coach who wants to call a game is a control freak? …. when I wanted a pitch thrown, there wasn't a question as to what pitch was going to get thrown. I'll attribute that to my years of experience and the fact that I am the one who will be held accountable for how the team does year to year.

You answered your own question. You know best; the athlete doesn’t. You’re accountable; the athlete isn’t. You can predict the future (that changeup you wanted in the state title game wouldn’t have been hung and hit out or bounced, leading to a next pitch fastball that gets hit out); the athlete isn’t so clairvoyant. You have agency; the athlete doesn’t. You’re empowered; the athlete isn’t.

Two reasons that coaches who die on this hill are control freaks is because (1) they don’t throw the ball and (2) for over 100 years coaches stayed out of pitch selection in baseball (until college coaches started calling games). So there is a presumption that pitchers and catchers have the aptitude to handle this part of the game at a certain age if they want that responsibility. (And I am not talking 14U, where the coach, the players, or a monkey after a three-martini lunch could call a game with equivalent results.) As a coach who wants to take control over a part of the game historically handled by the players, you are susceptible to charges of being a control freak.

I don’t meant to be harsh. Some coaches are terrific pitch callers (and my guess is that you are among them), and some athletes do not want the responsibility. (I sure didn’t.) But a lot of coaches are terrible—college coaches with “scouting reports” included. If you are going to go toe to toe with a player on this issue, then you should accept that you want to control something that ultimately you don’t have full control over, and you should consider whether winning that battle ultimately is in the athlete’s best interest.

That’s just my perspective (which I don’t mean to be personal).


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Cannonball

Ex "Expert"
Feb 25, 2009
4,854
113
Of course, you are correct and that changeup could have been hit out. Still, I believe that I put a little more effort into all that I do when coaching than I think most do. That is why some SEC schools and others have asked me to critique their hitters and give advice. I also believe that I have made it clear that I did allow my catcher and pitcher to call pitches. However, when I called a pitch, that was the pitch that was to be thrown. I have stated on this site many times and I have been here since this site was created, that I am past my prime for coaching. For whatever reason, I keep going back. I am absolutely positive that sometime this year, as with every other year, I'll be second-guessed. Some may judge me as a control freak. I believe that I am someone who outworks all others, keeps up with the latest information and knows how to win. To each their own.
 
Jul 13, 2019
54
8
I agree that the catcher has a better view of what is going on. I'm more inclined to have the pitcher shake off the pitch because she is the one that is throwing it and if she doesn't feel comfortable throwing it she won't commit to it and that usually leads to a poorly thrown pitch. I would want the pitcher and catcher to talk to me between innings and maybe we can get on the same page. I called pitches for about 11/2 games and then my catcher came up to me and told me what he was seeing and what he was thinking and after the talk I let him call pitches the rest of his career.
 

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