Daughter's pitching coach wants to teach the curve before the drop - thoughts?

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Jun 19, 2016
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Kind of a different topic but if your kid is a 6th grader I definitely would try to get her in 12A Instead of 14B. As an August 09 she very well could be a 7th grader and if so playing 14B is okay. In general, 14B is not any tougher than 12B.

As far as the curve ball/Drop ball .. I really don't see an issue which order they are learned in.
 
May 15, 2008
1,913
113
Cape Cod Mass.
If you go to Baseball Savant and look at MLB pitchers you see that very few pitches are thrown in the pure vertical plane. Most curve balls have a little horizontal break and most 4 seam fastballs have some break to the arm side. So most pitches have some horizontal break and hitters don't seem to have any problem hitting them if they are left in the zone. The spin/break on a pitch is less important than the quality of the pitch (how much does it actually break) and how well it is located.
 
Aug 21, 2008
2,359
113
As far as the curve ball/Drop ball .. I really don't see an issue which order they are learned in.
Disagree. There's a big difference. Learning a curve before other pitches can lead to the wrist turning at release, making the ball spin sideways, bullet spin. Bullet spin does not move, it stays straight. While I can't understand people who think this is good, I know they are out there so go ahead. After all, what do I know? But, I take it one step further with my students, we work on a rise before a curve. Do do a curve first will make the rise even harder. But learning a rise first, makes the curve much easier.
 
May 10, 2021
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Disagree. There's a big difference. Learning a curve before other pitches can lead to the wrist turning at release, making the ball spin sideways, bullet spin. Bullet spin does not move, it stays straight. While I can't understand people who think this is good, I know they are out there so go ahead. After all, what do I know? But, I take it one step further with my students, we work on a rise before a curve. Do do a curve first will make the rise even harder. But learning a rise first, makes the curve much easier.
Would there ever be a reason to throw bullet spin? IDK I am seriously asking.

My DD is an inexperienced 14UB pitcher. She throws a drop fastball and a change. That's it. Her PC has at least these 2 in order. I can see that "heavy ball" thrown at times out there.

Bullet spin is not a heavy pitch; it gets crushed frequently. Is this the spin used to curve the ball ?
 
Dec 5, 2017
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No offense but how effective will any of these pitches be in 14u if her fastball is only 46?
46 mph drop that starts low and about lands on the plate is pretty effective. I know a kid that does this and girls can't help swinging at it, and missing. The issue is when she misses her spot that 46 mph ball gets hammered.
 
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
46 mph drop that starts low and about lands on the plate is pretty effective. I know a kid that does this and girls can't help swinging at it, and missing. The issue is when she misses her spot that 46 mph ball gets hammered.
I just wasn’t sure that the combination of speed and the spin rate that somebody who throws that speed would be able to generate, would lead to effective pitches..
 
Apr 17, 2019
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Would there ever be a reason to throw bullet spin? IDK I am seriously asking.

My DD is an inexperienced 14UB pitcher. She throws a drop fastball and a change. That's it. Her PC has at least these 2 in order. I can see that "heavy ball" thrown at times out there.

Bullet spin is not a heavy pitch; it gets crushed frequently. Is this the spin used to curve the ball ?

No, Bullet spin is not typically desirable and I don't think any pitcher throws bullet intentionally. As a hitter, I see that dot coming and I'm like "It's Christmas!"

For curve spin, you want the dot pointed straight up ideally - but in reality, at least tilted up a minimum of 45deg to effect a break. It's easy when learning a curve or rise though to miss the release position and get bullet. (Full disclosure, there are a lot of variables that effect break, how fast the ball is going, how fast it's spinning, seam orientation, etc. I just know that a bullet isn't going to break reliably. That's why rifles were invented in the first place.)

She'll get far with a drop fastball and a change. Master locating them. When she gets her speed up consider a rise, just to keep hitters guessing.
 
Aug 21, 2008
2,359
113
Would there ever be a reason to throw bullet spin? IDK I am seriously asking.

My DD is an inexperienced 14UB pitcher. She throws a drop fastball and a change. That's it. Her PC has at least these 2 in order. I can see that "heavy ball" thrown at times out there.

Bullet spin is not a heavy pitch; it gets crushed frequently. Is this the spin used to curve the ball ?
There are people who teach bullet spin but, I don't understand why. Personally, I don't understand putting a spin on the ball that makes movement impossible. Yet, there's people out there who think this is ok. And, for the record, I do realize that many of the college game's top pitchers throw bullet like spin on their riseball, and I think that's incorrect too. Bullet spin and throwing it high isn't a real riseball IMO.

A "heavy ball" usually refers to a ball that is spinning correctly but not with very tight spin. It's a much looser rotation.

Bullet spin is usually what people have on a "screwball" because the actual spin required for the ball to curve inward is impossible. But, because bullet spin doesn't actually move anywhere, this is coupled with a wide step out to the left (RHP), the arm doesn't have any contact with the body at release, in fact it's usually several inches from the body at release. Ultimately when you combined the wide step out and arm outside of the body, a pitch that is angled inward is thrown. And because it's inside, a lot of people who desperately want to believe in this think it was a good pitch. And to be fair, "screwballs" usually work if they end up inside because the overwhelming majority of pitchers seem to throw outside without many throwing inside. So anything inside is either mis-hit or missed altogether, not because it "screwed" inward but because of the surprise of an inside pitch. Again, I know I know... please spare me the replies about how your kid throws inside a lot and throws to both sides of the plate. I was speaking in general terms. And generally speaking more girls throw outside than they do inside.

Bullet spin is NOT a curve ball spin, or it shouldn't be. For each pitch, the ball should be spinning in the direction of it's movement. Dropballs spin forward, riseballs backward, curves should be spinning sideways.
 
Apr 23, 2020
34
18
SE Wisconsin
For a pitcher just beginning to learn a riseball would a bullet spin high "fastball" be more effective than a high dropball? I am thinking yes based on watching many hitters tending to swing under high pitches. A high drop might just drop down into their hitting zone.
 

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