Danger zone speed

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LEsoftballdad

DFP Vendor
Jun 29, 2021
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NY
I think it answers your question in a round about way. I will use DD as an example. First Fall 16U 58-62 DD had great spin was able to mix in change 48 range. Was able to control just about every team we faced. Grew some while counting to lift and saw a nice jump in speed. We worked all winter on velocity. Sophomore year of high school she would cruise between 64-67 change now 52. However I noticed she wasn't near as sharp with her location and some spins were off. It was easy to get away with in high school so we worked hard on getting it lined out before last summers travel season. The spin and location is much better now. The difference with the higher velocity is reaction time. The batter has to make a decision quickly, and can generate swing and misses. We used the phrase throwing through the spin this summer as I felt she was chasing radar numbers too much. In reality she had gotten stronger, taller and her timing was somewhat off. If its flat good hitting teams will make you pay, but I believe that to be the case at most levels.
So, did you dial down the speed to get more spin? Cruising at 67 is really fast, so would dialing down to 64 change the spin that much?
 
Jun 19, 2020
83
18
So, did you dial down the speed to get more spin? Cruising at 67 is really fast, so would dialing down to 64 change the spin that much?
We didn't try to dial down the speed. We took a ton of video which she hates to do since it points out every flaw, and worked on correcting the issues caused from the speed increase / growth spurt. We saw an initial slow down to around 63-64. But once she was able to make the adjustment she has started creeping back up to 63-67 range. She has ben very efficient this fall. Trying to dial down for her is difficult. She changes too much and jacks everything up. I imagine there are kids who can do it no problem. When she's really cooking she always says she feels like she's going 50% and everything is just easy. When she took off growing in 14U I wasn't sure she would ever recover it was brutal!
 

LEsoftballdad

DFP Vendor
Jun 29, 2021
2,838
113
NY
We didn't try to dial down the speed. We took a ton of video which she hates to do since it points out every flaw, and worked on correcting the issues caused from the speed increase / growth spurt. We saw an initial slow down to around 63-64. But once she was able to make the adjustment she has started creeping back up to 63-67 range. She has ben very efficient this fall. Trying to dial down for her is difficult. She changes too much and jacks everything up. I imagine there are kids who can do it no problem. When she's really cooking she always says she feels like she's going 50% and everything is just easy. When she took off growing in 14U I wasn't sure she would ever recover it was brutal!
Trying to throw harder often results in slower pitches. The same goes for swinging a bat or a golf club. I can't count how many times I tried to Happy Gilmore a golf ball and wound up either missing it or driving it into the woods.
 
May 15, 2008
1,913
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Cape Cod Mass.
I think @GunnerShotgun was saying that the notion that a ball only moves at the end is false..which is true but I am not sure that is what people are referring to when they say something has "late break" even though the actual words do seem to imply that 🤷‍♂️
The question really revolves around whether the Magnus Force can increase as the pitch nears the plate. Since the trajectory changes so does the direction of air flow over the ball and that can affect the amount of Magnus Force (break). The other question that I have is whether a slow moving ball is easier to deflect than a faster moving one, since it has less momentum.
 
May 17, 2012
2,804
113
The question really revolves around whether the Magnus Force can increase as the pitch nears the plate. Since the trajectory changes so does the direction of air flow over the ball and that can affect the amount of Magnus Force (break). The other question that I have is whether a slow moving ball is easier to deflect than a faster moving one, since it has less momentum.
We no longer have to guess at such things thanks to Pitch f/x and high def cameras we have all of the data we need. They are all parabolas with no sudden change at the end.
 
Apr 14, 2022
564
63
We no longer have to guess at such things thanks to Pitch f/x and high def cameras we have all of the data we need. They are all parabolas with no sudden change at the end.
Parabolas rate of change changes. The derivative of x^2 is 2x.
Velocity is relative and the apex is not in the middle.
IE the Greg Maddux inside fastball to a lefty travels in a parabolic arc. However to the hitter the ball the ball is moving right to left toward them when it leaves his hand. It will then apex then travel away left to right.
 
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
The Magnus Force is proportional to the cross-product of the angular velocity vector and the translational velocity vector. Neither of these things are constant during the trajectory of the ball hence this force (a part of the force acting on the ball which makes it move) will not be constant. I would probably expect the magnitude of this Force to actually decrease during flight hence if this force produces a component which opposes gravity, which is pretty much constant, then "late movement" (in the direction of gravity) would be expected in this case. This is probably what you are seeing with a splitter, which has less backspin then a regular fastball. During it's whole trajectory it is going to drop more than a 4 seam fastball but there may be a bigger change (decrease) in the Magnus force during the end of the trajectory which causes it to drop more...not sure.

As a general statement, fluid dynamics is an inherently unsteady phenomena and the fluid dynamics of a baseball trajectory is no different. Hence the forces produced to move a ball during flight will not be constant. Knuckleball movement in baseball is the most obvious result of this unsteadiness..
 
Last edited:

Strike2

Allergic to BS
Nov 14, 2014
2,044
113
I believe there is a singularity around 54.69864 mph where hitting goes to infinity..

That's because that "singularity" causes a softball grow in the hitter's eyes to about the size of a volleyball. I'll let you work that math, Professor. o_O
 

LEsoftballdad

DFP Vendor
Jun 29, 2021
2,838
113
NY
And then there's this: you be the judge.


That's always been my argument. While a ball can't break late based on the pitching delivery and arm motion, gravity always wins in the end. The ball will sink more as it loses the force counteracting gravity. So, at least to the eye, the ball does have more late break.

Either way, Mariano's cutter was near impossible to hit.
 

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