Coaching difficult players U14

[quincy]

No fun getting pounded with a poor defense behind you. If I was in my DD's place I might have quit some seasons.

Need to be careful if you go this route or the Team is gone.

(Response to some previous posts not RADcatcher, just got crossed in the responses. Agree with Rad.)

 

[radness]

Here is another description that leads towards what I am saying.

There are people who want to do lessons. Their parents have the money to afford doing so and they don't mind putting money into their kid having an activity to enjoy.

Here's the reality check is that just because people are going to lessons. Doesn't mean they are actually working on what they learn at lessons on their own at home. Which kind of just means going to lessons is an activity they enjoy going and doing for half hour or an hour. Do they all have the inspiration and dedication to apply themselves to those lessons on their own? The answer is no.

Given that this is fact and it does happen.
Does it then fall on the instructors to make the decision whether or not they should keep teaching the student who doesn't really care to work on their own?
Or is it up to the instructor to set a standard on their own schedule that says,
'I'm sorry you cannot be on my schedule because you do not care to work on these things on your own.'
I know what this is like because I do have a standard and recognize that there are some people that are just doing something because it's an activity. Which is different than somebody who is doing lessons because they have a goal and a purpose to grow.
(I have a purpose to grow sb players, not just collect $$$$)

Have encountered people who were stunned and shocked that I asked them to step off the schedule because they did not work on things on their own. *Because that takes the spot from somebody else who does want to work on things on their own to develop the things we learn.

My suggestion is if you're going to step up and coach and you are approaching players who are already on a team. It is imperative to do an evaluation of those players on the team first before you decide to involve yourself in a situation that may not be in alignment with your own goals.
_____________________
Let me add this. Even though I have very clear Communications with people before they start doing lessons. There are people who still will start doing lessons and not apply themselves on their own. Go figure but it happens.
IMO the best thing you can do is make a decision for yourself. But you cannot make that decision for others.
Good luck!

 

[NBECoach]

Have you thought or even have any player(s) that can be Team captains, they are old enough. Push some the responsibilities to them.

I tell you, none of these kids would be enough of a leader to be a captain. None.

 

[YOCOACH]

Here is another description that leads towards what I am saying.

There are people who want to do lessons. Their parents have the money to afford doing so and they don't mind putting money into their kid having an activity to enjoy.

Here's the reality check is that just because people are going to lessons. Doesn't mean they are actually working on what they learn at lessons on their own at home. Which kind of just means going to lessons is an activity they enjoy going and doing for half hour or an hour. Do they all have the inspiration and dedication to apply themselves to those lessons on their own? The answer is no.

Given that this is fact and it does happen.
Does it then fall on the instructors to make the decision whether or not they should keep teaching the student who doesn't really care to work on their own?
Or is it up to the instructor to set a standard on their own schedule that says,
'I'm sorry you cannot be on my schedule because you do not care to work on these things on your own.'
I know what this is like because I do have a standard and recognize that there are some people that are just doing something because it's an activity. Which is different than somebody who is doing lessons because they have a goal and a purpose to grow.
(I have a purpose to grow sb players, not just collect $$$$)

Have encountered people who were stunned and shocked that I asked them to step off the schedule because they did not work on things on their own. *Because that takes the spot from somebody else who does want to work on things on their own to develop the things we learn.

My suggestion is if you're going to step up and coach and you are approaching players who are already on a team. It is imperative to do an evaluation of those players on the team first before you decide to involve yourself in a situation that may not be in alignment with your own goals.
_____________________
Let me add this. Even though I have very clear Communications with people before they start doing lessons. There are people who still will start doing lessons and not apply themselves on their own. Go figure but it happens.
IMO the best thing you can do is make a decision for yourself. But you cannot make that decision for others.
Good luck!

Yep. That's why I suggested what I did. Either they're going to poop or get off the pot. I'd find out real quick who wanted to learn, work and evolve as a player versus those that want to go back to rec ball. If the team imploded, so be it. I'd work with the ones who truly wanted to be there until I either built a team full of like-minded players or found them a home if I couldn't.

 

[radness]

Yep. That's why I suggested what I did. Either they're going to poop or get off the pot. I'd find out real quick who wanted to learn, work and evolve as a player versus those that want to go back to rec ball. If the team imploded, so be it. I'd work with the ones who truly wanted to be there until I either built a team full of like-minded players or found them a home if I couldn't.

While I agree there can be different approaches to the situation,
what you described is what some people complain about coaches pushing out players.

imo, think it is much more responsible to evaluate the situation before getting into it.
At this point in the situation he's already involved in it. imo best thing to do is ask what the group's preference/goal is on why they are out in the field.
(Maybe that's a 70-30 split and only 30% have to make a decision but the majority may prove the decision-maker on this.) But I don't think the coach can pull everybody a Direction They Don't Want to Go.
Common goal for a team is important regardless of what it is.

That "if the team imploded so be it' comment I'm surprised to read that you wrote that!
Really?
Because a coach joined a team that was already in progress with their season and decided to try and take it a different direction?

 

[YOCOACH]

While I agree there can be different approaches to the situation,
what you described is what some people complain about coaches pushing out players.

imo, think it is much more responsible to evaluate the situation before getting into it.
At this point in the situation he's already involved in it. imo best thing to do is ask what the group's preference/goal is on why they are out in the field.
(Maybe that's a 70-30 split and only 30% have to make a decision but the majority may prove the decision-maker on this.) But I don't think the coach can pull everybody a Direction They Don't Want to Go.
Common goal for a team is important regardless of what it is.

That "if the team imploded so be it' comment I'm surprised to read that you wrote that!
Really?
Because a coach joined a team that was already in progress with their season and decided to try and take it a different direction?

How is that taking a team in a different direction? The team needs a serious wake up call or as we both know, will end up more than likely imploding on it's own half-way through an absolutely miserable season for all. I've been through two seasons like that over the course of my career, with 2 different teams, in two different organizations full of players with the same attitude, and I refuse to do it again since both teams ending up imploding on their own. One halfway through and the other the minute the last game of the tournament season was over. The difference is I was asked to be the HC of those two already established teams. NBE's in a tough situation. They're essentially an AC with no real power other than being able to offer suggestions. Personally, I wouldn't walk away from that situation, I'd run. If this were a C or rec team I'd think differently. But I believe this to be a B or a minimum of B/C wanting to become a true B.

I agree with your approach but the truth is, more and more people talk a good game but don't follow through as you've said. They may say that they want to get good enough to compete at the B level or even the A level but don't want to put the work in. The old saying, "The proof is in the putting." comes to mind. When they don't put the work in and fail though, they blame the coach.

I don't think a demonstration of what type of commitment to the game is required, to play at the level they want to, should be considered pushing out players although some will. The demonstration can't be just one game it needs to be 4 games or so. It needs to be undeniable proof. One game many would consider a fluke.

As I said, one of three things would more than likely happen IME. 1) The most likely scenario IMO,a majority of players would buckle down and work hard to improve and they might lose a few. 2) The least likely IMO is that a majority of players wouldn't want to put in the necessary work and find another team while retaining a few. 3) Second most likely, a 50/50 mix with only a couple leaving.

The team needs to reevaluate their goals. The problem is, many people refuse to face the truth unless it truly smacks them across the back of the head. Even then, some refuse to accept it. Regardless, new goals need to be set but they can't do that until they've been tested and been found undeniably wanting and a majority see the cold hard truth. Only then will the parents and players accept a true change in direction. JMHO from past experience.

ETA: Scenario 2 is what I meant by the comment if they implode so be it. I wouldn't want it to happen. I wouldn't hope for it to happen, But I would expect the possibility of it happening no matter how small I think the possibility. Granted, a few would leave but it usually takes repeated drubbings over a series of tournaments versus 4 games.

Now I'll get a bunch of responses about how so and so saw this team or heard that team implode because of this

 

[radness]

How is that taking a team in a different direction? The team needs a serious wake up call or as we both know, will end up more than likely imploding on it's own half-way through an absolutely miserable season for all. I've been through two seasons like that over the course of my career, with 2 different teams, in two different organizations full of players with the same attitude, and I refuse to do it again since both teams ending up imploding on their own. One halfway through and the other the minute the last game of the tournament season was over. The difference is I was asked to be the HC of those two already established teams. NBE's in a tough situation. They're essentially an AC with no real power other than being able to offer suggestions. Personally, I wouldn't walk away from that situation, I'd run. If this were a C or rec team I'd think differently. But I believe this to be a B or a minimum of B/C wanting to become a true B.

I agree with your approach but the truth is, more and more people talk a good game but don't follow through as you've said. They may say that they want to get good enough to compete at the B level or even the A level but don't want to put the work in. The old saying, "The proof is in the putting." comes to mind. When they don't put the work in and fail though, they blame the coach.

I don't think a demonstration of what type of commitment to the game is required, to play at the level they want to, should be considered pushing out players although some will. The demonstration can't be just one game it needs to be 4 games or so. It needs to be undeniable proof. One game many would consider a fluke.

As I said, one of three things would more than likely happen IME. 1) The most likely scenario IMO,a majority of players would buckle down and work hard to improve and they might lose a few. 2) The least likely IMO is that a majority of players wouldn't want to put in the necessary work and find another team while retaining a few. 3) Second most likely, a 50/50 mix with only a couple leaving.

The team needs to reevaluate their goals. The problem is, many people refuse to face the truth unless it truly smacks them across the back of the head. Even then, some refuse to accept it. Regardless, new goals need to be set but they can't do that until they've been tested and been found undeniably wanting and a majority see the cold hard truth. Only then will the parents and players accept a true change in direction. JMHO from past experience.

ETA: Scenario 2 is what I meant by the comment if they implode so be it. I wouldn't want it to happen. I wouldn't hope for it to happen, But I would expect the possibility of it happening no matter how small I think the possibility. Granted, a few would leave but it usually takes repeated drubbings over a series of tournaments versus 4 games.

Now I'll get a bunch of responses about how so and so saw this team or heard that team implode because of this

Good to read that you said that you personally would walk away from that situation. Can understand why because you're coaching purpose sounds like it's definitely a different purpose than what that group is.
(NBEcoach may gleen something from that)

 

[radness]

This situation could be completely opposite. There are situations a coach is out there to play picnic softball. ( score doesnt matter)
And that's fine for them.
However there are families who don't want that scenario because they want intensity. They want things to be on a continual learning curve.
They want to be challenged. They want to be the highly competitive team.

Often that situation happens when players stay with the same group of friends because that's the comfortable place and stay with the well-intended parent coach who doesn't have a vision of anything beyond young youth sports. Then the family come to a place/time where they want more.
( these situation/teams sometimes have another coach brought in to try and direct the team. Or well-intended parent coach decides to stop coaching and the team needs a new head coach.)
* this is why I highly recommend doing an evaluation of the groups mindset before any new coaching decides to help/take over a group of players.
Is the coach's mindset in line with the group? Otherwise Coach's mindset can cause conflict if different than group.

Reality is everybody has to find the place where they fit in and that placalways the same place.

this applies to coaches also.

 

[santafe]

These are the same kids whom will ask late in the season, “Why can’t we win any games?” It’s a head shaker. Having coaches with high ball IQ helps tremendously.

 

[YOCOACH]

Good to read that you said that you personally would walk away from that situation. Can understand why because you're coaching purpose sounds like it's definitely a different purpose than what that group is.
(NBEcoach may gleen something from that)

If you mean that my purpose is to develop my players to the skill level of them being able to achieve their SB dreams whether it be HS Varsity ball or college ball, then I heartily disagree with this statement. As I said, this is supposedly a B or B/C team that again, supposedly, wants to improve. The only way to do that is hard work. Yes, I would walk away from this situation simply because I would be wasting my time and the other players that truly want to improve by working hard at home are being distracted and dragged down by those that don't. Much like you asking players to leave lessons that don't work at home to make room for those that do, want to learn and better themselves, my method would make room for other players that would like to do the same.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with players that want to go out and just have fun. There are other types of teams out there that are built specifically for that reason.Then there's this team that the OP intimated that they want to improve. This team, playing B or B/C level tournaments is nothing more than a sh!tshow waiting to happen.

As I've said, been there and done that. The 2 teams I had implode were at this talent level when I took them. I entered us in some purely C tournaments, some B/C tournaments and 1 B tournament. We got our butts handed to us in everything but the purely C tournaments. We competed against those teams but still lost. Why? Because most of the opposing teams worked hard throughout Winter while my teams just showed up for practice, gave 50% if that and went home to play couch potato and video games or doing social media on their phones. It's darn near impossible to help those who won't help themselves and I'm at the point in my life and coaching career where I've pretty much quit trying.

Long and short of it is I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree