Changeup Velocity

[_MIA_]

You mean they might be better at calling pitches and setting up batters than the average 14U coach?

Maybe..also by virtue of the more discriminant filter, maybe they do have better changeups but itsn't a baseball vs. softball thing.

 

[Towny9]

I would say there are four problems with most change-ups in softball.

1. Deception. Few pitchers work their change-up enough so that the delivery looks just like the delivery of their other pitches. Its sad how many pitchers slow down their entire body to throw the change-up.

2. The speed difference of the change-up. A lot of people seem to believe the change-up needs to come in super slow. It doesn't. A 10-15% difference from their fastest pitch, and a slight difference from their off-speed pitches. If your fastest pitch comes in at 60 and your change-up is coming in at 40, that's too much. Changes in speed don't have to be drastic to throw off the batters timing.

3. Most coaches, for whatever reason, don't call the change-up enough. The only reason to not throw a change-up is if the batter doesn't have a prayer of catching up to the pitcher's heat. If batters are making contact, change-up (and off-speed) should be called liberally. My DD's coach calls a change-up very frequently and it is very effective.

4. The old thinking that the change-up is called with 2 strikes only. The thinking should be a change-up can be called at any time. First pitch, 2 balls, full count, etc. If the batter is expecting the change-up, its nowhere near as effective.

To add to #4. The change up in baseball, unless it is disgustingly effective or nasty is almost never thrown with 2 strikes. The reason is because with 2 strikes hitters are usually thinking about shortening up and staying back. The change up gives them a pitch that they are ready for and that doesn’t break - basically a bad fastball. Change ups are most effective when the hitter is looking fastball. 1-0, 2-0, 2-1, 3-1 are outstanding times to throw a change up and get a cheap out. It can really bail a pitcher out of a bad count with one pitch and some weak contact.

 

[_MIA_]

The reason is because with 2 strikes hitters are usually thinking about shortening up and staying back.

Yeah, not sure this is true anymore, at least not in professional baseball

 

[Towny9]

Yeah, not sure this is true anymore, at least not in professional baseball

Point taken - There are still far better 2 strike “out pitches” in baseball and softball then a change up.

 

[_MIA_]

Point taken - There are still far better 2 strike “out pitches” in baseball and softball then a change up.

Agreed..the problem with a CU, as you mentioned, is the margin of error is smaller. That said, I watched Pedro make hitters foolish
on CU with 2 strikes all the time but like you said his was "nasty". Plus they were probably worried about getting one under the chin..which helps too

 

[Towny9]

Agreed..the problem with a CU, as you mentioned, is the margin of error is smaller. That said, I watched Pedro make hitters foolish
on CU with 2 strikes all the time but like you said his was "nasty". Plus they were probably worried about getting one under the chin..which helps too

Not only was his nasty - it had the same movement as a left handed curveball. It had tremendous break.

 

[_MIA_]

Not only was his nasty - it had the same movement as a left handed curveball. It had tremendous break.

Yup nasty..watching him pitch in 1999 and 2000 was a joy.

 

[Towny9]

I’m a huge Red Sox fan. Went to see him pitch in 1999 in TB and he hit Gerald Williams (the first batter of the game) and was ejected. I was so mad I didn’t get to see him pitch.

 

[_MIA_]

I’m a huge Red Sox fan. Went to see him pitch in 1999 in TB and he hit Gerald Williams (the first batter of the game) and was ejected. I was so mad I didn’t get to see him pitch.

I never saw him pitch in person. By the time he got to Boston I had left MA (grew up there and then graduated from college in MA in 1997) and I haven't gone to a game at Fenway since.

 

[CoachJD]

2. The speed difference of the change-up. A lot of people seem to believe the change-up needs to come in super slow. It doesn't. A 10-15% difference from their fastest pitch, and a slight difference from their off-speed pitches. If your fastest pitch comes in at 60 and your change-up is coming in at 40, that's too much. Changes in speed don't have to be drastic to throw off the batters timing.

Not enough discussion of this. I see a lot of effort to keep getting the change-up slower and slower, but if it's too slow, it gives the hitter time to get fooled and still adjust. The ideal speed is a speed that will 1) be slow enough to get a hitter thinking fastball to be too far out in front and 2) is fast enough that a hitter that is briefly fooled will then be late adjusting.

A super slow change could be effective as a novelty pitch, like an eephus pitch, where it's so far out of the ordinary that a hitter can't expect it or adjust to it for that single pitch. But if all you do is throw those, even average hitters will adjust to them.