Change up help

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Nov 20, 2020
995
93
SW Missouri
DD is learning the change up as well. Originally she thought she was throwing it right but it was coming out more off-speed than a true CU. Turns out she was still whipping the arm/wrist and leading with the palm.

She’s giving her version of the flip change a try. Still early but it seems to be working in practice. My only hesitation is that it seems almost too slow from 43’. I’m sure she will go through a few versions before finding what truly works. It’s early in the process for her.

I had an hour long text conversation with her PC about it. His words were simply....use whatever grip/release it takes to make it come out slower. His piece of advice was to keep the thumb on the ball as long as possible. However the pitcher achieves that is up to her. I’m probably screwing up what he said though. But basically he states there is no singular right way to throw it. Ask 100 pitchers, get 101 different answers.

I’ve also read where Bill Hillhouse states he uses (or used) a modified flip. DD’s PC says his could also be called a modified flip change up.

I watched a video that showed a horseshoe grip where the thumb and index finger lead (like carrying a suitcase handle). Seemed like a nice middle ground to build off of. Just adjust how soon or how much the hand/arm rotates into/during release. I’ve found this helps lock up the forearm and wrist to minimize the whip.

Those more experienced then me can hopefully shed some light.


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Oct 26, 2019
1,375
113
We found the horseshoe much more reliable/consistent than the flip.
My DD throws a horseshoe Circle change hybrid where she grips it like a circle and then throws the circle at the catcher like you would a horseshoe change. When it is working well it has a nice drop to it, but that is most likely gravity since she only throws at about 32 mph haha
 
Jul 27, 2015
235
43
FWIW, my DD went through about 3-4 different changeups (flip, circle, palm, and some really weird Balswick taught her that resembled a rise ball release) before she found the one that felt comfortable. If your DD continues to struggle, maybe try a different style - ?

Just a suggestion.
Try lots of variations as you suggested. And sometimes it is just time.

My daughter was second year 18u before she figured it out. She tried all the variations too on how to throw a change up. The secret for her? It does not even make sense and likely won't help another soul. She was injured early last fall and saw a new pitching coach for help (not about change ups. She has never thrown a change up with him) He had her change her weight distribution when she starts to pitch (so her stance) And that somehow translated into her being able to throw a changeup that works, and does not involve a slow arm, and it is not easy to spot coming.

Regarding grip. She throws a variation of the circle change. However, instead of curling the index finger, she took the advice of someone on this board who said that just slightly removing the index finger from the ball serves the same purpose. It does. And as a bonus, it also looks like her other grips so there is no easy way to spot it during her pitching motion.
 
Apr 17, 2019
194
28
You said that she is turning her hand too late, so I have to ask, is she turning her hand at all? One way to help a pitcher turn her hand is to ask her to throw curveball spin by coming around the outside of the ball prior to release, and make sure that the side of the pinky finger is the last thing to have contact with the ball. If she throws topspin when trying to throw the change she isn't turning her hand.

That’s interesting can you elaborate on what you mean?
 
Nov 18, 2015
1,585
113
Turn your thumb down (pronate) as you release the ball.

IIRC, Hillhouse would follow through to his opposite shoulder when he threw his change. He can obviously correct me, but I imagine that kind of release and follow through would result with his palm facing the batter, and his knuckles facing his left shoulder.

Let me know if I can over-explain it further for you - I seem to be doing that a lot lately. Guess I like to hear myself type... :)


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May 15, 2008
1,913
113
Cape Cod Mass.
That’s interesting can you elaborate on what you mean?
Paying attention to the spin on the ball can give you a clue as what the hand is doing. If her change has top spin the ball is most likely coming off the finger tips, a drop. This means her hand is behind the ball at release. This can be an effective change but you really have to be on top of the ball on the downswing, completely eliminate IR and shove it at the plate. If she has trouble not IR-ing this method is not an option.

If she is throwing top spin she could be doing it with a rollover hand action but that takes a lot of deliberate manipulation and I think she would know if that is what her hand is doing.

One way to take speed off the ball is by applying side spin. The roll over curve action will do this. The fingers point down and come around the outside of the ball, the hand actually goes past the ball so less velocity is applied to the ball. The side spin makes the ball break away from a right hand hitter which adds to it's effectiveness. The sooner you can get on top of the ball in the downswing the less IR and velocity the pitch will have. Thrown with normal IR the ball will loose 4-8 mph and be an off speed curve and very effective. If she can get on top of the ball earlier the ball will have even less speed. As a preliminary drill put the ball on ground and have her spin it like a top by applying counter clockwise spin, this will give her an idea of what the action feels like. After you introduce the basics of the fingers coming around the ball put her focus on the spin of the ball.

One reason why the change up is such a problem for pitchers is that they just don't throw it enough in practice to get comfortable with the release. Try throwing 20-30 change ups in a row and target different spots around the plate. Then alternate it with fastballs.
 
Apr 17, 2019
194
28
Turn your thumb down (pronate) as you release the ball.

IIRC, Hillhouse would follow through to his opposite shoulder when he threw his change. He can obviously correct me, but I imagine that kind of release and follow through would result with his palm facing the batter, and his knuckles facing his left shoulder.

Let me know if I can over-explain it further for you - I seem to be doing that a lot lately. Guess I like to hear myself type... :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is pretty much the cu she’s learning now.
 
Apr 17, 2019
194
28
Paying attention to the spin on the ball can give you a clue as what the hand is doing. If her change has top spin the ball is most likely coming off the finger tips, a drop. This means her hand is behind the ball at release. This can be an effective change but you really have to be on top of the ball on the downswing, completely eliminate IR and shove it at the plate. If she has trouble not IR-ing this method is not an option.

If she is throwing top spin she could be doing it with a rollover hand action but that takes a lot of deliberate manipulation and I think she would know if that is what her hand is doing.

One way to take speed off the ball is by applying side spin. The roll over curve action will do this. The fingers point down and come around the outside of the ball, the hand actually goes past the ball so less velocity is applied to the ball. The side spin makes the ball break away from a right hand hitter which adds to it's effectiveness. The sooner you can get on top of the ball in the downswing the less IR and velocity the pitch will have. Thrown with normal IR the ball will loose 4-8 mph and be an off speed curve and very effective. If she can get on top of the ball earlier the ball will have even less speed. As a preliminary drill put the ball on ground and have her spin it like a top by applying counter clockwise spin, this will give her an idea of what the action feels like. After you introduce the basics of the fingers coming around the ball put her focus on the spin of the ball.

One reason why the change up is such a problem for pitchers is that they just don't throw it enough in practice to get comfortable with the release. Try throwing 20-30 change ups in a row and target different spots around the plate. Then alternate it with fastballs.

Would this be considered just a drop curve?

IMO change ups are so hard because it’s pretty much the opposite of what the are taught to do.
 
Oct 4, 2018
4,611
113
My DD throws a horseshoe Circle change hybrid where she grips it like a circle and then throws the circle at the catcher like you would a horseshoe change. When it is working well it has a nice drop to it, but that is most likely gravity since she only throws at about 32 mph haha

I remember those days.

It's cool to see the bottom drop out, but honestly I've found the change up more impressive when it's in the 42-45 mph range and doesn't drop. If she sells it well and you expect fastball and the ball path is mostly like the fastball but 10 mph less it's pretty cool.
 

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