Catcher positioning question for the group, especially umpire point of view..

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May 7, 2015
842
93
SoCal
Ha, I have to say I enjoy this catching forum when there's some activity.. Lately its been pretty slow. That being said, I'd like to see what the consensus is on the following: How much should a catcher move out from center on outside and inside pitches??

A parent on DD's team took this picture, love how clear and crisp it is being that it was taken from OF. Anyway, what struck me is how much DD has moved out to center up the ball. That much movement is a double edged sword, the ump clearly has an amazing sight line to the ball, but on the down side, he can so easily see if the ball is on the black or just outside...

My preference is that I'd like her to move out less and be able to bring the ball back to center-ish on the frame (keeping in mind that DD might not move this ball at all due to it apparently an outside ball). For reference, I don't know the count or the situation with runners, so this might be a case of the pitcher hitting her spot. Who knows???

DSC05758 (2).jpg
 
May 24, 2013
12,461
113
So Cal
My DD has been complimented multiple times by umps on how quiet her body is when she receives. One ump talked with me at length about how catchers who move to get behind the ball very often make it more difficult for him to see the pitch (inside, primarily), and they probably lose a couple of strikes because of it.

The primary directive of "keep strikes looking like strikes" includes giving the ump a good look at it.

@erniekru Great pic of your DD! :)
 
Last edited:
Jul 22, 2015
851
93
I'm assuming I'm reading the angle correctly and she moved way towards that corner to try and keep the ball in the middle of her body (seems to be a prevalent current teaching). As an umpire or coach I highly dislike it. When a catcher moves her body more than a foot in any direction the pitch simply doesn't look like a strike. I know, I know, I'm not calling it based on where she catches the ball so it shouldn't matter. But, at least for me, it can be very distracting to see a catcher move her entire body so much. When they move that way towards the inside they can often block at least part of an umpire's vision. I watched a juco game recently where the 2 catchers had completely opposite receiving styles. Clearly you can't conclude anything from one game, but the one with a more traditional "framing" style was getting so many more strikes called so it may matter to some umpires.
 
Oct 26, 2019
1,375
113
My DD has been complimented multiple times by umps on how quiet her body is when she receives. One ump talked with me at length about how catchers who move to get behind the ball very often make it more difficult for him to see the pitch (inside, primarily), and they probably lose a couple of strikes because of it.

The primary directive of "keep strikes looking like strikes" includes giving the ump a good look at it.

@erniekru Great pic of your DD! :)
Eric is spot on. The quieter the better. Plus once it starts coming in faster, you just can’t move your body that fast. A great follow on twitter for receiving is DTD Softball (Dominate the Dish). She has some excellent receiving vids of her training.
 
Aug 27, 2019
640
93
Lakewood CA.
My DD is a freshman in collage. They work on this kind of stuff all the time. The answer to your question is, as little as possible. And as late as possible. That’s the quick and simple answer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

softgabby

Gear Empress
Mar 10, 2016
1,073
83
Just behind home plate
I saw this post before I hit S&C practice and was going to comment before some homework and face timing my fiance happened.

Okay, when I set up to receive a pitch, I start out with the center of my body at the center point of the plate with both of my feet between the middle point and the edge of the plate. That way, it's easier for me to take the step to the left or right to receive the pitch planting my feet on the edge and center of the plate.
 
May 24, 2013
12,461
113
So Cal
My DD has been complimented multiple times by umps on how quiet her body is when she receives. One ump talked with me at length about how catchers who move to get behind the ball very often make it more difficult for him to see the pitch (inside, primarily), and they probably lose a couple of strikes because of it.

The primary directive of "keep strikes looking like strikes" includes giving the ump a good look at it.

@erniekru Great pic of your DD! :)

Additional...

My DD will shift her center inside or outside with the intended pitch location, just as the pitcher is starting to move. This is early enough for the ump to adjust a bit if they need to, and late enough that the batter's focus is on the pitcher. It also gives the ump an idea on where to expect the pitch. If the pitcher hits her spot, the ball is being received with minimal movement.
 
May 7, 2015
842
93
SoCal
Thanks everyone for the replies, sorry for the late reply! With DD's softball in full swing nearly 7 days a week plus workouts and lessons and managing my 10yo in little league baseball, I'm flat out. Doesn't even consider the time that my job takes up!

Anyway, I guess reading thru the replies, I guess my question could've been a little clearer and maybe gave some more info which might help..
  1. DD plays 18u and catches fast pitching (low to mid 60's) all of the time. Her sequence is always the same with or without runners on as she doesn't want to telegraph pitch location. She lines up straight behind the plate. Once the pitcher is on the rubber and with her hands together, she'll flash the pitch location with only her glove and then bring it back to center. Once the delivery starts, she'll move out to the black for inside outside or up for drop or change. Her move results in a pretty wide stance.
  2. In this particular photo, it clearly is a lefty and the pitch location looks to be river outside based on DD's feet, at least thats what it looks like. Maybe the coach was calling for a pitch for the batter to chase???
  3. Also in this picture, it appears that the ball was to the outside of her bodies mid-line so then she shifted her body over without moving her feet, hence the lean(left side bias of her weight).
So, I think I like her move out footwork, but I think I don't care for the last bit of extra leaning outside. But that poses another problem, is it reasonable for a catcher to receive a pitch outside of your shoulders and then bring it back in? I think the perfect amount to move a ball is from arm pit to middle chest (~5") , not outside of shoulders to middle chest (~10"). Maybe this is all moot as this pitch was a ball (apparently) and she should've just gave up on it???

Either way, totally agree with the sentiment to keep it quiet as a catcher, hence the working on it with DD..
 
May 24, 2013
12,461
113
So Cal
Thanks everyone for the replies, sorry for the late reply! With DD's softball in full swing nearly 7 days a week plus workouts and lessons and managing my 10yo in little league baseball, I'm flat out. Doesn't even consider the time that my job takes up!

Anyway, I guess reading thru the replies, I guess my question could've been a little clearer and maybe gave some more info which might help..
  1. DD plays 18u and catches fast pitching (low to mid 60's) all of the time. Her sequence is always the same with or without runners on as she doesn't want to telegraph pitch location. She lines up straight behind the plate. Once the pitcher is on the rubber and with her hands together, she'll flash the pitch location with only her glove and then bring it back to center. Once the delivery starts, she'll move out to the black for inside outside or up for drop or change. Her move results in a pretty wide stance.
  2. In this particular photo, it clearly is a lefty and the pitch location looks to be river outside based on DD's feet, at least thats what it looks like. Maybe the coach was calling for a pitch for the batter to chase???
  3. Also in this picture, it appears that the ball was to the outside of her bodies mid-line so then she shifted her body over without moving her feet, hence the lean(left side bias of her weight).
So, I think I like her move out footwork, but I think I don't care for the last bit of extra leaning outside. But that poses another problem, is it reasonable for a catcher to receive a pitch outside of your shoulders and then bring it back in? I think the perfect amount to move a ball is from arm pit to middle chest (~5") , not outside of shoulders to middle chest (~10"). Maybe this is all moot as this pitch was a ball (apparently) and she should've just gave up on it???

Either way, totally agree with the sentiment to keep it quiet as a catcher, hence the working on it with DD..

If she's already shifted to line up with the black, that tells the ump to expect the pitch on the outside edge of the zone. Leaning more to center up behind the pitch is telling the ump it missed. A quieter body is a better approach (IMO). She should not be trying to pull in and frame a pitch that is outside her shoulders. Keep strikes looking like strikes, but let balls be balls.
 
Feb 13, 2021
880
93
MI
A few observations and thoughts from an umpire (my personal thoughts and observations YMMV):

'Framing' (i.e. sticking the pitch and freezing for a moment), is a good thing, it gives the umpire an additional split second to look at the pitch AND gives the catcher an opportunity to turn the wrist, on occasion buying an extra half inch or inch into the zone.

'Pulling' (i.e. quite noticeably moving the ball and glove into the zone, often as much as six or more inches total travel). Bad thing, it does not allow the umpire the extra split second to see where the actual pitch location was, it tells the umpire that the C thought the pitch was out of the zone (otherwise why pull the pitch?), it tells the batter's HC that the C thought the pitch was out of the zone and will wonder when the U calls a strike what is going on. Sometimes the C is pulling a pitch that was actually in the zone to start with. This means one of two scenarios can occur: 1) the pitch was borderline maybe a strike maybe not. By pulling the C has taken away that extra split second that framing gives AND it tells the U that the C thinks the pitch was out of the zone enough to not have been called a strike. Result: possibly cost your P a strike that the U would have been happy to call. 2) The C pulls a pitch that was obviously out of the zone. This fools nobody and MIGHT make an U think you are trying to show him/her up. Result: No bueno.

Catchers leaning to catch the pitch. Meh, if you are going outside no effect, if you are coming inside, you are more than likely going to to screen me and I wont be able to call as many strikes. That being said; you do you, girl and catch the ball the way coach tells you. Just be aware of the inside. Recommendation: Unless you are reacting to a missed location, move before the P actually delivers the pitch, it is possible to shift too late for the batter to be able to make use of the information and give the U a chance to still shift if s/he needs to to still get a good look at the pitch all the way to the mitt.

Catching out in front or in close to the body: Out front and freezing the mitt has the advantages listed above. In close to the body, especially if the C works OKD, is the newest technique. It truly makes the U call the pitch on its merits (since s/he gets no clues from the location of where the ball was caught) AND gives the U the best view of the zone. The perfect way to work IF you can do it effectively AND your U doesn't shrink the zone.

I am sure some of you are thinking, "why all this talk about how and where the ball is caught? The pitch is a strike or a ball based on if it passes through the zone" This is true, but umpires are human, we take all cues and hints into consideration when we make a quick decision, where did our eyes track the ball. If it is a breaking pitch, where would the ball be caught if it just clipped the corner. Even if a drop or CU DID catch the bottom of the zone, can I call a pitch in the dirt a strike? Does the C move (either arm or entire body) in such a way that my calling a strike won't pass the 'stink test' for the oppo HC.

None of these are listed in the rule book as having any bearing of calling balls and strikes. They shouldn't be. But we are human, they do make a difference and those are some of the reason why "this is today's strike zone, I will do my best to keep it consistent from start to finish in today's game and each time you see me as your umpire"
Copied from the thread "When should an umpire just be quiet" under Softball Discussions
 

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