Bullet spin rise?

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Jul 4, 2018
39
8
san diego ca
I generally observe two types of “bullet spin” from pitchers:

a) Small Dot
this is where the “narrows” of the seams are facing the batter.
Produces a very well defined small “dot” axis that the ball is rotating around

b) Big Dot
This spin is more curveball-ish. the part of the ball facing the batter is the largest smooth area of the ball. This produces a large “dot” axis that the ball is rotating around

Most of the NCAA “riseball” pitchers (like Garcia) throw a “Big Dot” and not a “Small Dot”. (And a few Unicorns throw true backspinning riseball...)

My own observations are that a Big Dot will stay on plane better, and have more true riesball qualities than a Small Dot. Small Dots generally get hammered...

for anyone trying to figure this out, i suggest making a bullseye ball like this one... it outlines the seam for the catcher to see and the backside bullseye is offset 1 inch from the opposing seam that the pitcher can see...

if i'm understanding what corlay is saying, this ball will show it... in slow pitch it seems it's best to have a perfect spin through the center of the smooth spot... but perhaps in fast pitch it's best to have a little wobble in the spin so it isn't going exactly through the middle of the smooth spot... that would make a larger rough side with the seam but smaller smooth side... hopefully these pics can explain it better... 😎BULLSEYE 05F.jpg
BULLSEYE 05G.jpgBULLSEYE 05E.jpg

this last picture shows the orientation i try to get in slow pitch... however, this is on the downward arc which fast pitch doesn't need to deal with... the orientation you'll want will be slightly higher than this... however, i posted this pic more to show how i want to get my spin directly through the center of the smooth spot because i'm dealing with speeds around 25 mph... at faster speeds you may want the spin slightly offset so the seam makes more turbulence... at least that's what i think corlay is referring too in order to get more movement... anyway... as a slow pitch pitcher... i'm just listening and trying to figure this out too... i know nothing of fastpitch... SPIN ORIENTATION (5).jpg
 
Jul 4, 2018
39
8
san diego ca
now that i reread what corlay said, i see he is merely pointing out the difference between the large smooth spot and the narrow part between the seems... not exactly what i was talking about ...

however, what i said may still apply... you may not want a perfect bullseye in fastpitch... but rather a wobbly one... that's what i see when i look at garcia's slow motion from the catchers perspective... if someone could hand her a bullseye ball and ask her to throw that with the bullseye forward it would help... 🤔
 
May 16, 2019
256
43
When teaching the curve ball to a student, the ball will often mimic a screw ball and go the opposite way. What we've learned is if you snap the ball before your bellybutton( as a point of reference ) the ball will go in to a right handed batter like a screw ball. If you snap at your bellybutton the ball will spin but will not break. Snapping after your bellybutton causes the ball to curve. I now teach the screw ball this way because some have elbow pain from the traditional screw ball release. With a little tweak we throw a screw ball with a rise at the end of it. it looks very similar to how Garcia is throwing her pitch.
 

BLB

May 19, 2008
173
18
Over the years, a number of people on this board have made reference to a "perfect rise ball spin". Just curious...what do they believe to be a perfect rise ball spin and why?
 
May 16, 2019
256
43
For me , I'd take results over rotation. That pitch has served Garcia very well how can you argue against it. We could probably find a pitcher with perfect backspin too and stand on that position. Some pitchers have a little more flexibility getting in to that position than others. JMO
 
May 30, 2013
1,440
83
Binghamton, NY
Kelly Barnhill (Florida) used to achieve perfect backspin on her riseball - last season.
not so much this year. new pitching coach (Mike Bosch) might have jacked her up...

Megan Klist (Oregon) was getting pretty good true riseball spin last season. She didn;t pitch this year,
as she transferred to LA Layfayette. She will be in the circle next year as a grad student, I think.

Not sure about Megan Good (James Madison)? not a lot of hi-def slo-mo of her out there to look at,
but i suspect she gets pretty good riseball spin.
 
May 30, 2013
1,440
83
Binghamton, NY
now that i reread what corlay said, i see he is merely pointing out the difference between the large smooth spot and the narrow part between the seems... not exactly what i was talking about ...

no....I think you've nailed it.
Thanks for the visuals...

That is the "Big Dot" version of bullet spin I was describing.
Turn that big dot upwards, so the axis is facing up and not in the direction of the path of travel,
and you get a curve ball...
 
Mar 6, 2018
150
28
My daughter's pitching coach made a comment about the rise ball the night before this thread started. My dd wants to learn it (10) and asked him to teach her. He was hesitant and told her that's the toughest pitch to learn. He commented that there are only about 7 girls in division 1 right now that can throw a true riseball. He said he could name them all. My daughter mentioned Garcia after watching ucla play and he said she throws more of a corkscrew type ball and not true rise. He mentioned barnhill throwing it correctly. I won't mention his name as he wasn't trying to bad mouth any girl. He was mostly trying to explain to my daughter that it's a tough pitch to learn at any age especially at 10. He made a deal with her, that if she could do one of his drills for it he'd start her on it. Told her it could take a year or 2. She's obsessed with it now. Im just commenting here because of the timing of the discussion.

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk
 
Jul 4, 2018
39
8
san diego ca
When teaching the curve ball to a student, the ball will often mimic a screw ball and go the opposite way. What we've learned is if you snap the ball before your bellybutton( as a point of reference ) the ball will go in to a right handed batter like a screw ball. If you snap at your bellybutton the ball will spin but will not break. Snapping after your bellybutton causes the ball to curve. I now teach the screw ball this way because some have elbow pain from the traditional screw ball release. With a little tweak we throw a screw ball with a rise at the end of it. it looks very similar to how Garcia is throwing her pitch.

i suggest making a bullseye ball and using it to see what the seams are actually doing... you can see immediately what's happening and once you figure it all out it will help to refine the pitches... the yawed bullet spin will produce the magnus force away from the yaw... :cool:
 
Apr 12, 2015
694
63
He commented that there are only about 7 girls in division 1 right now that can throw a true riseball. He said he could name them all. My daughter mentioned Garcia after watching ucla play and he said she throws more of a corkscrew type ball and not true rise. He mentioned barnhill throwing it correctly.

That's not bad mouthing, that is plain truth.
 

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