Barely Any At Bats

[YOCOACH]

why not just have the best batter bat 1st so they get the most AB’s? the order will only matter the first time your team comes to bat.

First off, it does matter the entire game, not just the first at bat. Statistically the top 4-5 batters will get more at bats because you turn the top of the order more often than reaching the bottom in a game...even a timed one. So explain to me your thinking in this please given the following scenario. Tournament is 70 minutes finish the inning single elimination bracket play and you can only bat 9. You are home team on minute 68. Inning 4 and your team is now up to bat but down 1 run. Because you were a smart coach your 9th batter, who is now batting, has your 3rd highest BA. She strikes out. Now it's 1 out and still down 1. Do you really want your best BA player batting next considering there's no one to move around the base? Or would you prefer the player with the best OBP up and on base so #2 can sacrifice to get them on 2nd, 2 outs, tying run on 2 and have your best BA player up to bat? She hits a single, tying run scores. Worse case scenario, ITB. Best case scenario #4 hits a bomb to score them for the win.

 

[JayW]

When DD was in a similar situation a year ago, this is the kind of advice I wish I followed. Instead, my husband and I listened to those who told us that DD would learn through adversity and that she needed to finish the season. We wasted a lot of time and money on extra lessons and extra work and none of that resulted in more playing time until she switched teams.

Sounds like the extra lessons and work were not wasted. Hard work is often its own reward.

 

[JayW]

First off, it does matter the entire game, not just the first at bat. Statistically the top 4-5 batters will get more at bats because you turn the top of the order more often than reaching the bottom in a game...even a timed one. So explain to me your thinking in this please given the following scenario. Tournament is 70 minutes finish the inning single elimination bracket play and you can only bat 9. You are home team on minute 68. Inning 4 and your team is now up to bat but down 1 run. Because you were a smart coach your 9th batter has your 3rd highest BA. She strikes out. Now it's 1 out and still down 1. Do you really want your best BA player batting next considering there's no one to move around the base? Or would you prefer the player with the best OBP up and on base so #2 can sacrifice to get them on 2nd, 2 outs, tying run on 2 and have your best BA player up to bat? She hits a single, tying run scores. Worse case scenario, ITB. Best case scenario #4 hits a bomb to score them for the win.

you just cherry picked a scenario. i could make up a scenario where 8 and 9 reach base and 1 (your 3) comes up to bat in last inning. much better than having your 1 come to bat. I want the best hitters to get the most AB’s over the course of the season. also not sure how you can assume best average and obp are not the same player. they often are.

in your scenario, i like the chances for your 3, 4 and 5 hitters (who i have moved to 1, 2 and 3) scoring a run.

i respect your opinion, though, and realize that yours has been the conventional approach.

 

[Shiloh]

When DD was in a similar situation a year ago, this is the kind of advice I wish I followed. Instead, my husband and I listened to those who told us that DD would learn through adversity and that she needed to finish the season. We wasted a lot of time and money on extra lessons and extra work and none of that resulted in more playing time until she switched teams.

Aw that sucks. Sorry.

 

[_MIA_]

That is also puzzled me and I also want to know how other parents handled the situation with some kind of success.

For us, we signed a contract that parents can't discuss playing time with coaches for our prior team. Most of the time, I felt coaches cared about being right more than winning. You can hit if they say you can hit. You can not hit if they say you can not hit. You pitch slow if they say you are slow. Stats, radar guns,... do not matter.

Last weekend tournament our prior team coach came over to talk to me while DD's new team was playing. He made a comment that DD was playing 2nd and SS. I explained to him that this new team rotates players' positions on Saturday. I knew that he implied that I pulled DD off his team because I wanted DD to be the best player on a team. But the truth is I just didn't want to be the least favorite on his team and not to get play. I was so mad at the guy. It was so hard for DD to leave the team. Even 10U girls can be so mean. I monitor DD's email and saw some conversations. Why they were so mean to DD? Couldn't they see that we left the team only because DD didn't get to play? DD played with some of girls over 3 yrs. Her old team won the championship while her new team was in the bottom two. I know DD was sad. But does anyone want to be in the dugout all day Sunday in order to be on a winning team?

Till this day, I still could not ask the guy why he treated DD so badly because I just don't think I will get an honest answer. I try to think that maybe as an experienced coach, he could see something in players that normal people could not see. He certainly treats some other girls a lot better. I want to know how to be on a coach's favorite list. Also, how girls deal with changing teams? How do they corporate with it in terms of being friendly with old teammates? Or not be bothered by mean old teammates?

Why travel ball has to be this hard?

Leave the past behind after you learn from it. You now hopefully know better what to look for in a coach (hopefully). Trying to figure out the riddle of why humans behave as they do is fool's gold.

 

[YOCOACH]

you just cherry picked a scenario. i could make up a scenario where 8 and 9 reach base and 1 (your 3) comes up to bat in last inning. much better than having your 1 come to bat. I want the best hitters to get the most AB’s over the course of the season. also not sure how you can assume best average and obp are not the same player. they often are.

in your scenario, i like the chances for your 3, 4 and 5 hitters (who i have moved to 1, 2 and 3) scoring a run.

i respect your opinion, though, and realize that yours has been the conventional approach.

True. However, look at your scorebooks over the years. You'll find that my scenario plays out ie. number 9 comes up with the top rolling over more often than the 8,9 or 7,8,9 batters in the final inning. Your approach is an interesting thought though. Also, my best OBP player usually hasn't been my player with the best BA although they are not mutually exclusive as you pointed out. That said, usually my best OBP player has been the one who has a great eye for pitching and walks as often as hits.

 

[Eric F]

That is also puzzled me and I also want to know how other parents handled the situation with some kind of success.

For us, we signed a contract that parents can't discuss playing time with coaches for our prior team. Most of the time, I felt coaches cared about being right more than winning. You can hit if they say you can hit. You can not hit if they say you can not hit. You pitch slow if they say you are slow. Stats, radar guns,... do not matter.

Last weekend tournament our prior team coach came over to talk to me while DD's new team was playing. He made a comment that DD was playing 2nd and SS. I explained to him that this new team rotates players' positions on Saturday. I knew that he implied that I pulled DD off his team because I wanted DD to be the best player on a team. But the truth is I just didn't want to be the least favorite on his team and not to get play. I was so mad at the guy. It was so hard for DD to leave the team. Even 10U girls can be so mean. I monitor DD's email and saw some conversations. Why they were so mean to DD? Couldn't they see that we left the team only because DD didn't get to play? DD played with some of girls over 3 yrs. Her old team won the championship while her new team was in the bottom two. I know DD was sad. But does anyone want to be in the dugout all day Sunday in order to be on a winning team?

Till this day, I still could not ask the guy why he treated DD so badly because I just don't think I will get an honest answer. I try to think that maybe as an experienced coach, he could see something in players that normal people could not see. He certainly treats some other girls a lot better. I want to know how to be on a coach's favorite list. Also, how girls deal with changing teams? How do they corporate with it in terms of being friendly with old teammates? Or not be bothered by mean old teammates?

Why travel ball has to be this hard?

When I was coaching, I used to get frustrated and upset when a player would leave. Where's the loyalty? How can you not see what a great team we have? It was during 12U that I had a revelation...The only loyalty in travel ball is a parent doing what they think is right for their kid. Sometimes the parent is right. Sometimes the parent is delusional. It was 16U that I had another one...Not every team is right for every player. Find the one that fits.

It's a bummer to hear that your DD's former coach and teammates are jerks. I see that as a confirmation that finding another team was the right decision for your DD's journey. Especially for a young player like your DD, she will develop faster getting playing time on a lesser team than she will sitting on the bench of a championship team. The road ahead is still long. In a year - maybe two - your DD's former team will either look very different, or be gone completely. Such is the nature of TB. VERY rare is the team that keeps its core together for more than a couple of years.

As for former coaches and teammates - with rare exception - we look forward to seeing them out on the fields. Last weekend, my DD's 18U team played a small tournament (19 teams), we saw 6 former teammates, and a couple of former coaches. I said hi to every one of them, and got to spend time talking with a couple of the dads. While my DD was playing, a couple of her former teammates sat with me for a bit to chat. It was great to hear about their futures as they head to play college ball next year. TB is too small a community to burn bridges. Make friends. Don't hold grudges.

 

[JayW]

True. However, look at your scorebooks over the years. You'll find that my scenario plays out ie. number 9 comes up with the top rolling over more often than the 8,9 or 7,8,9 batters in the final inning. Your approach is an interesting thought though. Also, my best OBP player usually hasn't been my player with the best BA although they are not mutually exclusive as you pointed out. That said, usually my best OBP player has been the one who has a great eye for pitching and walks as often as hits.

it definitely depends on your personnel. i have been interested to see in college softball how often teams like oklahoma, alabama and florida have been willing to bat their best power hitters 1 or 2, whereas teams like Florida State will put their speedy slappers at the top of the order. there’s definitely a place for different approaches. tinkering with offensive and defensive lineups and manipulating defensive shifts and alignments is part of the fun of coaching.

 

[Ready41]

I think most of us (parents) that have seen these types of coaches and teams. Always looking for players, always have turnover. They have their core of 5 or 6, and they don't want to make changes to them or their positions. So the last 5, 6 or 7 players split time for 3 or 4 positions. Travel softball here is a small world. Usually part of that core leaves and forms their own team, then the new team and old team fight for the players that were not good enough before.
Your job is to do what's best for your DD. Your child, your money, your decision. Not all coaches are smart. not all former great players are great coaches, but most of them think the decisions they make are what's " best for the team".
Find the right fit for your DD. Doesn't matter if it's a good or bad team. The right team and the right coach will make all the difference.

 

[Towny9]

True. However, look at your scorebooks over the years. You'll find that my scenario plays out ie. number 9 comes up with the top rolling over more often than the 8,9 or 7,8,9 batters in the final inning. Your approach is an interesting thought though. Also, my best OBP player usually hasn't been my player with the best BA although they are not mutually exclusive as you pointed out. That said, usually my best OBP player has been the one who has a great eye for pitching and walks as often as hits.

I believe the baseball nerds have come to the statistical conclusion that batting your best hitter second, followed by your next best hitter first, followed by your next best hitter third, fourth, fifth is actually the best way to go about constructing a lineup. OPS Seems to be the best way now to calculate a Hitters effectiveness.

Also remember reading somewhere that odd numbered batters leadoff mornings that even numbered batters.