Attempted Tag

Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

Apr 14, 2022
565
63
When does the attempted tag occur and the baseline established? Is it at the reaching of the ball toward the runner with the arms? Or when a player is chasing with the ball but 5-6’ away?

Basically runner is going from 3-4 catcher receives the ball with runner 15-20’ away. Catcher comes off the plate toward the runner. Is the baseline established as soon as the catcher heads toward the runner with the ball, or does the catcher have to get close enough to swipe?
 
Dec 15, 2018
809
93
CT
Though it is part of the definition of “base path”, “Tag attempt” is not a defined term.

USA 8.7.a The runner is out if they run to a base more than three feet outside the base path to avoid being touched by the ball in the hand/glove of a fielder.

Th base path is the direct line between the base and the runner at the time a defensive player is attempting to tag.

It’s a judgment call if the defensive player is attempting to tag the runner (though running towards a runner with the ball in hand seems like an obvious attempt to tag).

If a catcher is moving towards a runner with the ball, and a runner runs more than three feet outside a direct line to the base, it is likely they have done so to avoid being tagged by the catcher. I would (have to be there) likely call this an out.
 
May 29, 2015
3,731
113
@Greatdaytobeawildcat touched on something interesting in the USA rule ...

8.7.A in full reads:
A. When running to any base in regular or reverse order and the runner runs more than three feet from the base path to avoid being touched by the ball in the hand or glove of a fielder.

Notice there is NO mention of a tag attempt. Does the fielder have the ball in hand/glove? Did the runner move more than three feet out of their path (the direct line between them and the base) to avoid being touched? That may seem like splitting semantic hairs, but it establishes a different standard -- nothing there places onus on the fielder's actions.

If the fielder is chasing the runner, I am going to be hard pressed to call the runner for a base path violation. If the fielder is between the runner and the base, pretty easy call. If the fielder is coming from the side (as catchers commonly do), my interpretation is that the path is established as soon as the catcher is in a reasonable position to touch the runner OR, in my personal interpretation: where are X and Y going to intersect? That's your point of reference.

NFHS mirrors the USA verbiage (even adding a metric conversion of 0.91m!) while USSSA still references a tag attempt.


USSSA
Rule 8 Base Running

Sec 18. Any runner is out when the runner:
A. Runs more than three feet away from the base path to avoid being tagged, or to hinder a fielder while the runner is advancing or returning to a base.

EXCEPTION: This is not an infraction if a fielder, attempting to make an initial play on a batted ball, is in the runner’s proper path and if the runner runs behind the fielder to avoid interfering.

NOTE: When a play is being made on a runner or batter-runner, the runner establishes their base path as directly between the runner’s position and the base toward which the runner is moving.


NCAA wording is more complex, but also uses the "tag attempt" standard.

2.6 Base Path
The imaginary direct line, and three feet to either side of the line, between a base and a runner’s position at the time a defensive player is attempting to apply a tag. The base path is the established path on the infield traveled by a runner who is attempting to advance to the next base.

12.10.5 When they are running to any base in regular or reverse order, the runner may not attempt to avoid or delay a tag by running out of the base path. (See also Rule 2.6.)


EFFECT—The ball is live. The runner is out if they deviate from the base path when the fielder is attempting to put them out, but each other runner may continue to advance with liability to be put out. Exceptions: (1) A base runner is not out when they run behind or in front of a fielder and outside the base line in order to avoid interfering with the fielder attempting to field the batted ball in the base path; and (2) The runner is not out when they fail to run in a direct line to a base, provided the fielder in the direct line does not have the ball in their possession.

Despite the difference in languages, I still basically apply that "intersection standard" that I mentioned above. If they are on their current paths and moving towards one another, where should X and Y intercept? That's my point of reference.
 

marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am
Oct 2, 2011
4,312
113
Florida
The NCAA rule book looks like if a kid in English class was asked to write a rules book and tried to avoid plagiarism so he just googled synonyms of all the words in the other rules books and slapped together a bunch of unnecessarily complex nonsense.

Most rules books are English words but not Engligh sentences.

Just finished my NCAA & NFHS exams - it just emphasized just how poorly the books are written.

I REALLY wish all these sanctions could just get together and just write one set of rules from scratch... or maybe just adopt the international rule book.
 
May 29, 2015
3,731
113
IMO, the NCAA is the book that you get when people say, "Why can't you spell out every little detail?"

The NFHS book is the book you get when people say, "It's just softball/baseball, everybody knows the rules so let's just play."
 
Jan 22, 2011
1,610
113
I'm doing the safesport training, then I need to study for the USA Softball umpire test.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
42,831
Messages
679,493
Members
21,445
Latest member
Bmac81802
Top