Tony Gwynn

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Jun 8, 2016
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I guess in the last 20 years Ichiro was sort of similar but he also didn't come up through the US minor leagues
 
Sep 19, 2018
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Lets put it this way, do you think Boggs, Gwynn, Carew, etc were such unique talents that nobody in the last 20 years has that same ability to hit for such a high average..or is it the game has changed where nobody is allowed to anymore...I don't know the answer, just asking.
Probably a little bit of both. Relieve pitching is so much different now. Every bullpen has a bunch of effective arms. In the 80s starters still went deep into games. then in the 90's there were lots of ineffective middlemen. Lots of teams with one (or less) reliable pitcher coming out of the bullpen. Of course, as you note, batter intent is so much different as well.

I do wonder if the same analytics were applied to the game pre-steriods (or pre Bo Jackson), would the y come to the same conclusions as they do (did) in today's game.
 
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
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Probably a little bit of both. Relieve pitching is so much different now. Every bullpen has a bunch of effective arms. In the 80s starters still went deep into games. then in the 90's there were lots of ineffective middlemen. Lots of teams with one (or less) reliable pitcher coming out of the bullpen. Of course, as you note, batter intent is so much different as well.
Definitely agree. Which is why I said previously that Gwynn's average wouldn't be as high in today's game but still would probably be better than everybody else if he had the same approach to hitting. In addition to the better arms out of the BP, I think the fact that hitters now rarely get to see a pitcher 3 times in a game makes a difference.
 
Oct 26, 2019
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Definitely agree. Which is why I said previously that Gwynn's average wouldn't be as high in today's game but still would probably be better than everybody else if he had the same approach to hitting. In addition to the better arms out of the BP, I think the fact that hitters now rarely get to see a pitcher 3 times in a game makes a difference.
I agree with this as a general statement, but Gwynn made a compelling argument against it. He hit almost .400 in 260 career at bats against Greg Maddux, John Smoltz, and Tom Glavine. I just think the dude is an outlier. He hit almost .400 against Curt Schilling and in 45 at bats Pedro Martinez never struck him out. He hit .315 off Pedro.

I think he could have hit todays middle relievers.
 
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
I agree with this as a general statement, but Gwynn made a compelling argument against it. He hit almost .400 in 260 career at bats against Greg Maddux, John Smoltz, and Tom Glavine. I just think the dude is an outlier. He hit almost .400 against Curt Schilling and in 45 at bats Pedro Martinez never struck him out. He hit .315 off Pedro.

I think he could have hit todays middle relievers.
Certainly possible. I would be curious to see what his average was per AB in a game (1st AB vs 2nd AB vs 3rd AB, etc) against the same pitcher. Like I said, he would still hit for a higher average than everybody else but it is hard to believe when the league BA has dropped 25 points since he played, that his wouldn't have dropped a little.
 
Last edited:
May 11, 2014
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Since MLB changed the baseball to make it fly 15 to 20 ft further than when he played, I would put money on his avg and power numbers being even better.
 

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