Swing down

[FP26]

FP26, I don't believe anyone has stated the barrel should be moving in a downward path through contact..

You may not have said it, but that is exactly what the pro's demos show. Down through... It's what I have been trying to point out for months. "Swing down" as a hand path? Fine. (Honestly I like the qualifier that @julray uses, adding that the amount of "down" will depend on location -- sorry if I misquoted you julray). "Swing down" as a barrel path? Bad.....

I'm glad we are finally on the same page here. I have been trying for months to get you to acknowledge this one simple point.

 

[clemenslee1]

You may not have said it, but that is exactly what the pro's demos show. Down through... It's what I have been trying to point out for months. "Swing down" as a hand path? Fine. (Honestly I like the qualifier that @julray uses, adding that the amount of "down" will depend on location -- sorry if I misquoted you julray). "Swing down" as a barrel path? Bad.....

I'm glad we are finally on the same page here. I have been trying for months to get you to acknowledge this one simple point.

Actually @FP26 if you didn't watch that interview the discussion was all about knob to the ball. In which Albert was stating in the snippet above taking the knob to the ball and dropping the bat head on the ball. Fyi nothing at all was said of down through in the interview.

 

[FP26]

FP26, do you and Shawn have common ground in regards to the rear leg/hip being an engine where the lead side's primary job is to catch the swing ?

I'm really not too sure where @Shawn stands in that regard, to be honest. I will allow him to comment on his own beliefs. In my opinion the first thing that needs to happen is that the hitter needs to get to the launch position fully stretched. You can refer to it as slack removal if you want. When it is time to launch, the lower and the upper work together because they are linked by the stretch. This includes multiple muscles from the upper legs up through the core into the upper back. I discussed it somewhat in the post below.

Swing down

How important is hip angle to this discussion? If your hip angle is up you get more behind the ball and swing up. yep. That would be a shifting/posture issue. Hips should be closer to level on the move out which should leverage the hips early.

www.discussfastpitch.com

 

[FP26]

Actually @FP26 if you didn't watch that interview the discussion was all about knob to the ball. In which Albert was stating in the snippet above taking the knob to the ball and dropping the bat head on the ball. Fyi nothing at all was said of down through in the interview.

You missed the point...

 

[FP26]

IMO some of the new school thought (ttb) was created to eliminate the steep barrel path while using the rear leg/hip as the driver (ABAF).

You seem to have an unhealthy infatuation with this clip...

 

[clemenslee1]

You missed the point...

If you meant it just as a point of hand path down to, then ok. But you stated the pros keep demonstrating down through in their demos and you posted that clip. Which if that was the point then it's misleading about what that pro was talking about. Is all I'm saying

 

[FP26]

Here's the thing, "TTB" can be either a descriptor as I (and I think FP) use it in a sentence to describe a bat's movement and barrel path which can be accomplished in a number of ways (passively and/or aggressively). Or a name or label for an ill-fate teaching mechanic of torquing/twisting the bat by pronating and supinating the respective forearms as the first move of the swing, to get the bat to move in an overly aggressive manner (that I don't like or teach), that at times because of that, will or can get dumped, too loopy, cast, or whatever out of pitch plane term you'd like to call it.

My only thought or suggestion is that FP, myself, and others who see the initial rearward move of the barrel, but don't subscribe to the overly aggressive, pronation/supination of the forearms that one person has labeled "TTB"...is to call our view of that rearward barrel path something different to remove the confusion, since some here can't seem to be able to separate or differentiate the two (intellectually or maliciously...dunno ).

But since I've not much into inventing names for things, I'll just throw it out there that maybe, the "Barrel Gets Turned" (BGT), which doesn't state how it gets turned, only that it does, might be a remedy for the confusion. Then, it's up to the instructor to learn the various ways one's able to accomplish that, to what extent, and to then teach the correct barrel path that matches that of high level hitters. If someone has a better name to describe it, and differentiate it from the now apparently infamous "TTB", I'm all for that as well.

With that said, if one's able to teach that the "BGT" correctly using the "swing down" cue to match that of HL hitters, well then outstanding...I hope to see some members' developing players posted here displaying that. So far I've seen several members post some of their DD's and DS's really nice swings using the BGT method with great success (EricF and JDint off the top of my head), and think they're definitely on the right track, and that those swings will serve their players very well in the future.

Just my thoughts, hope others will chime in to finally put an end to the "TTB" confusion of terms.

I am fine with using BGT if that would help the conversation move forward instead of constantly spinning tires. I agree that to me it is more about a barrel path and has nothing to do with a certain mechanic or philosophy. That said, I thought we were trying to work our way away from that by using the phrase "behind and through". In my opinion it is another descriptive term that matches the barrel path I am looking for. Unfortunately some people don't seem to like that either...

 

[FP26]

If you meant it just as a point of hand path down to, then ok. But you stated the pros keep demonstrating down through in their demos and you posted that clip. Which if that was the point then it's misleading about what that pro was talking about. Is all I'm saying

That's fine. I don't bother saving all the clips that others post. I know there are other clips that demonstrate an extreme chopping barrel path. By extreme chopping I mean that it goes down over their rear shoulder diagonally, instead of around their rear shoulder in an arc. I just don't happen to have one of them saved (never saw the point really), so I figured I would post this one.

 

[FP26]

If you meant it just as a point of hand path down to, then ok. But you stated the pros keep demonstrating down through in their demos and you posted that clip. Which if that was the point then it's misleading about what that pro was talking about. Is all I'm saying

Is this one better? The point is that the actions demonstrated here do not match his game swing. Sure, he could have the thought process of "swing down". I never stated I disagreed with that. But the hand path seems exaggerated in this clip, and he does not allow his hands to travel that far before BGT (first chance to use the new term )

 

[julray]

You may not have said it, but that is exactly what the pro's demos show. Down through... It's what I have been trying to point out for months. "Swing down" as a hand path? Fine. (Honestly I like the qualifier that @julray uses, adding that the amount of "down" will depend on location -- sorry if I misquoted you julray). "Swing down" as a barrel path? Bad.....

I'm glad we are finally on the same page here. I have been trying for months to get you to acknowledge this one simple point.

No you got it… down to is relative to pitch location. The hands are direct to the ball regardless of location. In Pujois demo he’s showing being direct to the ball. I do wish he demoing a ball at the shoulders because it would make more sense to the people who are having issues with the fact Pujois is isolating his hands, there is no posture, no leverage etc