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May 12, 2016
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Has there ever been a more relaxed/effortless move out and swing that played the game ?

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Silky smooth

.363 with 24 HR's, 1.072 OPS back in 93
 
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May 12, 2016
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FP26, all the guys who speak top of the ball gives them a reference/target on the ball.. These guys are not trying to hit HR's but line drives.. HR's occur when they miss the target.

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And they all say that, including Donaldson. He says in that interview that damage is done out front... but he's not trying to hit the ball out front.
 
May 12, 2016
4,338
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This is great. Manny with a high back elbow and hands, he has to swing down more. Just like Cruz and Howard with a high back elbow and hands saying their approach is down and through.👍

And then there was Ted Williams and Carew with low hands. Ted hands are more inline with the pitch. To him the swing was up, matching the plane of the pitch. His barrel worked down in back, but his hands are aligned to the ball flight.


View attachment 23230

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It doesn't make a difference where the hands start. "down to" is relative to pitch location. For example, you mentioned Cruz. If he swings at a ball up around his shoulders, will he be "down to"? No, but he will still be "direct to the ball". So guys with a low handset when swinging at a pitch belt high will emulate what Cruz does when swinging at a pitch shoulder high.
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May 12, 2016
4,338
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BTW, if I came up against a softball player with a low handset like this, I would blast them high inside with rise ball heat. It would take an extraordinary athlete to get to a ball like that... and a lot of luck.
 
May 12, 2016
4,338
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First of all, I am sorry to hear about your father. My father passed a way a few years ago and it was a very difficult day. I could not imagine losing him at such a young age. I just lost my mom 3 weeks ago, and it's still heavy on my heart.

Secondly, I never said the thought process doesn't have merit. What I have been trying to get across, repeatedly, for years... is that I am trying to understand what you and others are saying by not taking everything so damn literally. On the other hand, not only do you and others want to take all of my comments 100% literally, but then, in some cases, you actually say I said things that I never said. The impression I get is that I am attempting to have a conversation about this, but that you and others would rather just throw stones.

When I think about hitting the top of the ball, this is what I envision. I'm quite sure this is not the type of swing you are promoting, or the type of result you are looking for. But he most definitely hit the top of the ball... Are pros thinking or practicing hitting the top of the ball? Possibly. Do they actually hit the top of the ball? Not often. If they did, they wouldn't be pros any more.

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Had to be hit and run LOL.
 
Jul 16, 2013
4,659
113
Pennsylvania
I ask questions because you and Shawn are miles apart when it comes to TTB. Just trying to get some clarity of the different definitions floating around. Shawn's version seems to be a replica of TM... while yours seems to be something entirely different. It's hard to have a conversation when you don't know where the goalposts are, just trying to establish that.

Shawn and I definitely have differences in what we think, but there is also some common ground. I do not claim that the hands are not involved, I just don't believe in forced supination. I do not want to speak for Shawn or anyone else. I would prefer they speak for themselves.
 
Jul 16, 2013
4,659
113
Pennsylvania
Have you ever tried the Bonds progression drill where you hit in front of the plate then progress out to hitting through the wall ? What do you think the purpose of the drill is ?

I see it as he is attempting to impart backspin on the ball while swinging "down to", with no loop in the barrel path.

Yes. I have tried the drill. Honestly, I prefer the drill that Chappy suggested years ago. It is similar to the Bonds drill but not quite as extreme.

I see your 2nd paragraph as the crux of the conversation.
  1. Backspin -- while this is a common goal and has been for years, I'm not sure the true benefit of backspin is equal to the perceived benefit. Plus, hitting the top of the ball (above the equator) is not going to produce backspin. At least based on my limited understanding of physics. Even if you are swinging down, you still must contact the ball below the equator in order to create backspin and create a line drive (or higher).
  2. Down to -- I have mentioned numerous times that if the thought process behind "down to" is hand path, I have no issue with it. But the barrel should not move in a downward path through contact. And I have not seen evidence to the contrary.
  3. Loop -- that is a term that is irrelevant to me. My goal is not and never has been to create a loop. The barrel path I want is the barrel path shown in the clip below. If you consider that a loop, then I apologize and I will admit that I promote a loop. But then you will also have to admit that Bonds swings with a loop instead of "down to".
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Jul 16, 2013
4,659
113
Pennsylvania
@pattar or anyone else that has a science background.

If a spherical object is involved in a collision, and contact occurs above the midpoint of that spherical object, what direction will said spherical object travel in after that contact? Will that vary based on the direction that the other object is traveling in? Do you agree or disagree with the premise behind the drawing below?

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Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
@pattar or anyone else that has a science background.

If a spherical object is involved in a collision, and contact occurs above the midpoint of that spherical object, what direction will said spherical object travel in after that contact? Will that vary based on the direction that the other object is traveling in? Do you agree or disagree with the premise behind the drawing below?

pX5WqQc.gif
For all practical cases this is right. I would guess it isn’t impossible for it to be reversed but the spin rate on the incoming ball would have to be incredibly high.
 

fanboi22

on the journey
Nov 9, 2015
1,138
83
SE Wisconsin
Have you ever tried the Bonds progression drill where you hit in front of the plate then progress out to hitting through the wall ? What do you think the purpose of the drill is ?

I see it as he is attempting to impart backspin on the ball while swinging "down to", with no loop in the barrel path.
In working with DD on this drill and trying myself, i agree with the 'down to', and if 'no loop' means 'direct to the ball' then i also agree. I do not, however, agree with the imparting backspin. If that were the case the first step in the progression would not be possible. ie hitting into the plate.

I feel it as the wood chopping to start, hitting the ball square every time. Then each step out requires the body to get into a better posture to allow the ball to get farther while trying to make the same square contact. I don't think the drill wants you to hit under the ball to impart backspin, as if that were the case every step out would require to hit farther under to make the ball go farther out. As you attempt to hit the ball farther and farther on a line drive, by the time you are hitting over second base your posture should be pretty good, as the hands are still starting in the same higher shoulder position. The barrel needs to also start to get 'around' faster to meet the ball at the right angle to progressively hit the ball farther and farther. I see it as keeping essentially the same hand path (or at least the 'feel' of the same path) while getting the body into a better and better position to meet the ball.

We usually finish off trying to have her do the same thing but trying to hit bombs vs the liners over second. She has fun with it.

This has helped her not drop her hands to the ball , and be more direct because if the body doesn't move out of the way for the hands to get thru, the hands start doing bad things. I think.
 
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