Prevent runner from advancing to second on a walk with runner on third

[marriard]

where can i find this in the rule books.. i havent run across this yet

USSSSA Rule Book. Page 41. Rule 8.2 Every fastpitch rule set has what amounts to the same rule in it.

http://usssa.com/docs/2019/USSSA_FPRB_19.pdf

At it's core it says that once the pitcher has the ball in the pitching circle and is not making a play all baserunners must decide whether to continue to the next base or return to the previous base and can change direction ONCE. They can't stand off the base in the middle or try to draw a throw by going back and forward.

There is some nuances to the rule. The rule doesn't apply until the batter-runner reaches first. Immediate decision is a judgement call by the umpire. A play being made includes a pitcher looking to throw (so ball being held in throwing position). It HAS to be the pitcher in the circle not another fielder. And so on.

There is a lot of discussion on this site about it - just do a search.

 

[coach james]

At 10u, baserunning is King. I like to have the 2B cut off the throw to 2nd and then throw home... Or fake the throw to 2nd, then pick the runner off 3rd

 

[mmeece]

At 10u unless I have a real strikeout pitcher I want any and every out the other team gives me including those that allow a run to score. I'd much rather work on how to get the runner from 1B out every time than put any thought into the runner at 3B for now. Most of those teams just don't have enough arms/gloves to put together that many throws and catches on the same play. Otherwise, if you're just going to give them 2B on the next pitch anyway then let them have it on the walk.

 

[SESwildfire]

after working on a solid defense for this all off season I came to the conclusion that attempting anything on that runner usually results in a worse scenario then two runners on. We are a solid 12B team that is 50/50 with A. We love to be aggressive on the paths and teach our girls to never run into a tag, and to only run half speed on a first and third scenario for this reason and kick it into gear and come in dirty last 10 steps. So we practiced defense on a range of speeds of our own base runners taught to do this vary thing. we tried:

second base little over halfway in line, pitcher back of circle snap the throw, tag and go home. almost %90 of our runners leaving first froze at the throw and returned while runner at third scored.

placing short last 5 feet from 2b, quick throw and go home. Exact same thing only we were about 50/50 from executing the out at 2. (i feel with more work that would be solid) but in all instances runner scored. Maybe in bracket play when that run didnt matter this would be a good option.

faking throw to second and snapping to third. These girls are not good actors, ive seen balls come out of hands spiked into the ground and fakes that someones blind gma wouldnt buy. Finally decided that any fake throw of any kind would be done with ball in the glove ONLY. Our runners didnt fall for it and i doubt many would.

Just for grins i called my SS and P to circle and told my SS to stand at 2b and when runner advance be ready for the ball and only shoot home. Told my pitcher when runner advances soft toss it to short and duck. We only tried this once but my SS hosed the girl going home then my catcher fired to 3rd for a double play, both girls out by a long shot. Why we could perform that just by removing the tag is beyond me but it worked. Biggest thing is not to get tangled up in the tag and shoot to next base. Our motto on defense has been get more all year, tag and go. Its made us better base runners as well since we practice against being aggressive.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

Unless you can throw and catch at very high level you should just let the runner go.

As someone else pointed out if you aren't throwing down on the first pitch it matters little. From an analytics perspective, when you talk about Runs Expected, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

Having said all of that... wouldn't let it be a free for all. I would absoultely throw down if the runners get lazy later in the game.

 

[Cornbread]

I do a couple things, some already mentioned. Catcher throws back to pitcher and pitcher immediately throws ball to 1B who is standing in the baseline near the base with her eyes and attention on runner at 3B. This typically will keep runners at 1st and 3rd. Some runners will wait until ball goes back to circle and will take off immediately then but not 10U or 12U

 

[djcarter1966]

Assuming you hold the runner at first, will you throw through on the first pitch or are you just going to give it to them? If you are just going to give it them I would let them have it the first time.

I would wait until later in the game and throw them out. The girl on third won't even go because she thinks you won't throw it.

At higher levels you almost never see anyone try it.

This is always my question, if on the first pitch to the next batter you are going to give them the base anyway I'm not sure what the point is of trying to stop them and throwing the ball all over the place? At 10U though this is hard because executing good throws is simply not a given at this age. Now if you really want the out then take it let runner get a third of the way to 2B or a little farther and throw it to the second baseman standing halfway or some variation thereof and just take the out, can always try and throw home but don't expect to get the double play. At this age it is just simply a matter of accuracy and arm strength and not much that can be done until the girls get better and stronger.

This is also why one of the little "game" drills we would play is simply throwing the ball around the infield without letting it drop whatever pattern you want to you to force longer throws, no around the horn and no lollipop throws.

 

[jellison1978]

Depending on the situation in a game, we will take the out of the runner going to second. especially in the lower age groups. The run might score but you are taking the pressure off the pitcher because you have an out and nobody is on base. You do this a few times you won't see them just running to second. Now you need to keep in mind the situation in the game and if that runner on third is important to keep them there or not. Less then two outs runner on third odds is in favor that run will score anyway. So why not let it and get the out at second?

 

[MadBandit22]

Like to hear defensive ideas to prevent a walked batter from advancing to second with a runner on third. We are a 10U team and a senior team advanced their walked batter several times around to second. Our pitcher just held the runner at third but Im not happy with giving a free base and putting another runner in scoring position.
Looking for a play to stop this. Ideas?

Your 1st concern should be the runner on 3rd. Only two plays I know of is either having your catcher aggressively fake a throw to second and then turn and throw to 3rd trying to catch the runner in a rundown.
Secondly, you can designate either your SS or 2nd baseman to step-in and catch a throw from the catcher in an attempt to fool the runner on 3rd to think your foolish enough to give-up a run for an out. Again the idea is to get the runner at 3rd in a rundown and tag her out.
Basically you would need a catcher and a SS with cannons for arms to execute a throw down to 2nd for an out and then a throw back to home for a 2nd out. It takes perfect execution and has to be done flawlessly. It also helps if the runner on 3rd is slow and or inexperienced.
I’ve pulled it off with a big lead but would not try it in a close game unless I was desperate.

 

[uncdrew]

It happens against us frequently, and we run to second some. We've never had a team try to make any play against us. I feel like we're all either:

1. Confused about what to do defensively.
2. Have tried things and learned letting them get to second is the best plan
3. Know that trying anything is a waste and letting them get to second is the best plan


I feel like we're in the third camp. We don't have a ton of practice time and this just doesn't make the cut. Lots of squeeze, no juice (as said elsewhere).