Passed Ball or Wild Pitch?

[coolestcoachever]

14 y/o daughter plays catcher for her travel team (HS division) and I keep stats on GameChanger for the coaches. During a recent game a pitch hit the edge of the plate. Catcher tried to block but it bounced away and the runner on 3rd scored. Coach in the dugout yells that she has to block that. After the game I was talking to the coach and said that it was a bad pitch. The pitcher’s dad heard and said that EVERY pitch should be blocked and that every coach calls for pitches to be in the dirt. He said that I just give wild pitches to the pitchers so my daughter doesn’t get the passed ball. DD tries to block every pitch that she can’t catch but sometimes this pitcher throws 5-6 an inning that are in the dirt near the plate. My questions are 1. When should it be a passed ball and when should it be a wild pitch. 2. Do coaches often call for pitches that are in the dirt with runners on third?

 

[Gags]

Almost always - if it hits the dirt, it’s a WP.

A coach may call for a low pitch, but if he expects the pitch to be in the dirt, with a runner on third, that doesn’t sound like a very good strategy at any level (says the 10U coach). Especially if it hits the plate or edge - you have no idea where it’s going.


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[marriard]

When should it be a passed ball and when should it be a wild pitch. 2. Do coaches often call for pitches that are in the dirt with runners on third?

From the NCAA Softball Scoring Guide:

"Wild Pitch:A pitched ball that the catcher misses and could not be expected to catch resulting in a base runner advancing"

Not expected to block. Expected to CATCH.

If it hits the dirt near the plate it is always a wild pitch. Catcher can't catch that. End of story.

If a catcher manages to BLOCK it, then the pitcher should be thanking her.

You can direct Pitchers dad to the guide to scoring below if he wants to have a cry about his daughters crappy bouncing change-up:

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/Stats_Manuals/Baseball/baseball_softball_scorebook.pdf

From the same guide:
"Passed Ball: A pitched ball that the catcher can reasonably be expected to catch but misses, resulting in a base runner advancing. "

Again - not block. CATCH.

 

[MadBandit22]

14 y/o daughter plays catcher for her travel team (HS division) and I keep stats on GameChanger for the coaches. During a recent game a pitch hit the edge of the plate. Catcher tried to block but it bounced away and the runner on 3rd scored. Coach in the dugout yells that she has to block that. After the game I was talking to the coach and said that it was a bad pitch. The pitcher’s dad heard and said that EVERY pitch should be blocked and that every coach calls for pitches to be in the dirt. He said that I just give wild pitches to the pitchers so my daughter doesn’t get the passed ball. DD tries to block every pitch that she can’t catch but sometimes this pitcher throws 5-6 an inning that are in the dirt near the plate. My questions are 1. When should it be a passed ball and when should it be a wild pitch. 2. Do coaches often call for pitches that are in the dirt with runners on third?

Anything that hits the plate is tough. I would say wild pitch on that one. Anything in the dirt should be blocked.
Basically anything in catchers reach is a passed ball. Ball hitting plate is like bad hop on infielder and they generally get a pass and listed as hit not error.
Wild pitch would be anything that catcher has no chance to get. Ball 10’ over her head or to the sides.
With runner on 3rd it depends how much confidence you have in your battery. Risky call like bunting with two strikes. High risk high reward.

 

[CoachJD]

Anything in the dirt should be blocked.

But if it's not, it isn't a passed ball. Anything that bounces is going to be a wild pitch if the person scoring is doing it right. Even if it "should have been blocked." (I agree that a good catcher is expected to block certain pitches in the dirt; doesn't make it a passed ball if she doesn't)

Basically anything in catchers reach is a passed ball.

No. There are plenty of terrible pitches that, in theory, could be caught but are not passed balls if she doesn't. "Reasonably expected to catch" is the key here. Expecting a catcher to catch anything she can "reach" is not reasonable.

 

[MadBandit22]

But if it's not, it isn't a passed ball. Anything that bounces is going to be a wild pitch if the person scoring is doing it right. Even if it "should have been blocked." (I agree that a good catcher is expected to block certain pitches in the dirt; doesn't make it a passed ball if she doesn't)



No. There are plenty of terrible pitches that, in theory, could be caught but are not passed balls if she doesn't. "Reasonably expected to catch" is the key here. Expecting a catcher to catch anything she can "reach" is not reasonable.

You must be the pitchers Dad writer was referring to. I have daughters that pitch and catch. The problem with catchers is that they get lazy and don’t “sell out” and hit their knees on low pitches in the dirt. They are supposed to get in front of the ball and block it that is a big part of their job.
I understand they have equipment on, and it’s hot and cumbersome but that’s the position they chose.
Too much “bull fighter” mentality out there I’ll just try and backhand the ball without moving to get in front of it. They wear all that equipment for a reason. Get in front of the ball and block the damn thing!!!
Now one thing that shouldn’t be the catchers responsibility is running down to 1st in full gear to back-up throw to 1st. Crazy to expect that from catcher. Let right fielder get a little exercise and back-up 1st base. Makes so much more sense.

 

[FP26]

If a catcher manages to BLOCK it, then the pitcher should be thanking her.

This ^^^ Pitcher's dad here. Unfortunately we have been through the gamut of catcher quality. DD's travel ball catcher could block virtually anything. Very few balls were able to get by her. By comparison, DD's high school catcher was the direct opposite. DD had hitter's reach 1b on a D3K for a called strike. Yes, the batter didn't even swing, and the catcher still let the strike get by her. Sometimes without even getting leather on it... Wow, I"m glad those days are over...

This works for fielders sometimes as well. DD typically played 1b when she wasn't pitching and had a knack for digging bad throws out of the dirt. She loves short hops. She saved numerous errors for our SS and 3B over the years.

 

[Gags]

Also key point here - i believe it’s only a PB or WP if the runner advances.

And MadBandit - I agree that more catchers should be getting in front of the ball, but that’s also akin to saying every SS should lay out for the grounder in the hole, or every 1B should pick the short-hop, or else it’s an error.


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[texasheat]

You must be the pitchers Dad writer was referring to.

No he is just someone that knows the proper way to score the play. Hits the dirt before it gets to the catcher and gets by them, it is a Wild Pitch. period. No bull fighting analogies needed. Wild Pitch.

 

[MadBandit22]

This ^^^ Pitcher's dad here. Unfortunately we have been through the gamut of catcher quality. DD's travel ball catcher could block virtually anything. Very few balls were able to get by her. By comparison, DD's high school catcher was the direct opposite. DD had hitter's reach 1b on a D3K for a called strike. Yes, the batter didn't even swing, and the catcher still let the strike get by her. Sometimes without even getting leather on it... Wow, I"m glad those days are over...

This works for fielders sometimes as well. DD typically played 1b when she wasn't pitching and had a knack for digging bad throws out of the dirt. She loves short hops. She saved numerous errors for our SS and 3B over the years.

It’s amazing how a good catcher can make an average pitcher look good, and a poor catcher can make a good pitcher look average.