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Jul 16, 2013
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Pennsylvania
I am going to speak only of my son's baseball pitching experience here, but I studied this carefully during his HS and college, and it seemed to me that the majority of time when a pitcher tried to throw off the plate on 0-2 they ended up walking the kid. This strategy worked at 12U but didn't work well after that. I just never saw that many kids swing at pitches off the plate. Many many times, then the pitcher would have a hard time throwing a strike for a pitch or two, then they would be frazzled because they let it get to 3-2.

That could very well be the case. However, I have seen just the opposite in high school and college softball. An 0-2 or 1-2 riseball seems very difficult to lay off. In travel ball I had my catcher call the pitches. She would often call something just off the plate, and at times, was able to expand the umpires strike zone as well. Or so it seemed.
 
May 12, 2016
4,338
113
I am going to speak only of my son's baseball pitching experience here, but I studied this carefully during his HS and college, and it seemed to me that the majority of time when a pitcher tried to throw off the plate on 0-2 they ended up walking the kid. This strategy worked at 12U but didn't work well after that. I just never saw that many kids swing at pitches off the plate. Many many times, then the pitcher would have a hard time throwing a strike for a pitch or two, then they would be frazzled because they let it get to 3-2.
I can't speak for your own experience.. but I see this at every level of ball(baseball & softball)... and they older/better they get the more they can easily gain control after wasting a pitch. Really surprised that you experienced this HS and college levels. Pitchers dictate what happens at the plate, hitters react. When the pitcher has the advantage, 1-2, 0-2, they will likely test the hitter to chase a bad pitch..

Basically what FP26 said
 
May 12, 2016
4,338
113
I can see how a riseball would be an advantage.
So is a change up, or a pitch off the plate, or a drop ball low outside etc etc... any of those pitches are advantageous if you can get a hitter to chase in a 0-2 and 1-2 count.

There are exceptions, if you are in tournament play and are a bit thin with pitchers, and are up 5 + runs, then you might want to save your pitchers arm. Keep the pitch count low, let the defense make the play.
 
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
One of the cardinals rules of baseball is that you cannot give up a hit on a 0-2 count...make them swing at your pitch. If they hit a ball a foot and a half off the plate then you tip your cap.

Of course the lower the level of baseball/softball the more likely that a 1-2 count will end up as a walk but if that is the case then it is probably also more likely that a pitcher trying to paint the corner with an 0-2 count is going to throw one right down broadway. That said at the lower levels a batter has a better chance of missing one right down broadway so I would say that trying to paint the corner vs. making them chase is probably a better option at the lower levels and becomes progressively worse as both the pitchers and hitter improve.
 
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May 12, 2016
4,338
113
I think most of the Cardinals were stoned when they made these rules. My pitcher son didn't care about this one, or using any waste pitches. Just pitch your game, as you said.
And your son went on to play at a high level throwing meatballs down the middle of the plate on a 0-2 count? That's not an attack on you or your son... it's actually a compliment because he must of had some pretty special stuff in order to be successful doing that.. for example velocity with movement and other junk. 90% of other pitchers can't get away with that. Get ahead early, work the count in your favour and get the hitters to chase. There's a reason why hitters are more successful when up in a count, it's because they know the pitcher has to come back with a pitch in the strike zone. The best pitchers can either overpower, throw junk for strikes, or paint the corners (location) in any count. When the hitter has a count in the pitchers favour, they struggle because they are guessing, and that's why you see a lot of ugly swings, they guessed wrong and now they are trying to get a piece of it. The hitters aren't dumb, the pitchers just dictate the situation
 
Jan 28, 2017
1,662
83
That could very well be the case. However, I have seen just the opposite in high school and college softball. An 0-2 or 1-2 riseball seems very difficult to lay off. In travel ball I had my catcher call the pitches. She would often call something just off the plate, and at times, was able to expand the umpires strike zone as well. Or so it seemed.

Calling pitches is hard sometimes at the lower levels. 0-2 and you can get her out with a fastball in or out. Do you work on drop, change, rise, or the eight others? LOL.
 
Jan 28, 2017
1,662
83
DD's most effective pitches are rise and change. She throws a drop as well. She has played around with other pitches but these are the three she uses most of the time. She doesnt have elite level speed so she counts on location and changing speeds. Tries to keep hitters off balance.

I was being serious about it being hard and wasn't directing my post at anyone. Do you want to work on things or get them out? My DD change up is very good. It's her best pitch by far but it gives some kids a change to hit her at 12U. She always has her curve or drop but not always both. Rise is really good sometimes. Are you developing your DD or trying to win? Hard sometimes IMO. My DD will probably not be a D1 pitcher but most dad's that had D1 daughters say the wish they had thrown more change up when they were younger.
 
Jul 16, 2013
4,659
113
Pennsylvania
Calling pitches is hard sometimes at the lower levels. 0-2 and you can get her out with a fastball in or out. Do you work on drop, change, rise, or the eight others? LOL.

DD's best pitches are her rise and change. She mixes in a drop but doesnt often throw anything else. As they say, if you have eight pitches, that means you really dont have any. She doesn't have elite speed so she relies on accuracy and mixing speeds.
 

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