Injuries HE vs IR

[Ken B]

At 53, I throw with “IR” aka whip, 4 days a week while working with 15-20 kids per week—also throwing with “IR.” Over the last 14 years, I can only think of 4 who have experienced discomfort—all from some aspect of poor form.

HE does not exist on any elite level. It’s simply not possible. Video evidence clearly shows that even those who tout its benefits, actually throw with IR/whip.

My hope is that HE as a teaching form is soon on its way to a deep, dark abyss. FF is coming soon!

 

[Mike Mac]

My now retired 18 yr DD is/was an I/R pitcher. I/R came naturally to my DD, her first pitching coach was a H/E coach but to her credit realized my DD was not going to change. We eventually moved on to a coach that was more in tune to I/R, she actually was going to Bill Hillhouse for a while. I believe H/E or I/R is a style choice (I believe I/R is the mechanically correct way) that being said my DD friend was a very successful H/E pitcher. The only light I can shed on this subject is over-pitching is the number 1 cause of injury. Keep your DDs from throwing 3 games in a weekend regardless of what the coach says. There should be pitch number restrictions on softball pitchers especially under the age of 14. Do not let daughter pitch with pain or pitch excessively, they will damage to their arm, back and shoulder. Good luck from a retired (sadly) bucket dad.

 

[curiousgeorge123]

i'm a team coach and my 10U daughter pitches..we are transitioning to I/R. she is a strong HE pitcher but want to play the long game, take 3 steps back to take many more forward.

we had our first session playing catch under hand yesterday. we progressed through lock-its to 12 o'clocks. did not get to windmill/long toss.

she felt great...i had tightness in my forearm (palmside/underside) ...iced it last night and feels better today....i don't think i'm injured...think it's muscle soreness from never using those muscles and then really giving them a workout yesterday. i will listen to my body and not push it until i feel better.

is it normal to feel some soreness in that area when first starting out? if my daughter had to ice her arm and had the same soreness I did, I'd be much more concerned.

 

[Gags]

I may have felt a little sore once or twice, but this was while throwing full speed against a wall.

I have to ask - if you're daughter is 10U, how hard are you throwing to her? If you're feeling tightness afterwards, you're likely not staying relaxed enough in your own motion. Especially @ 35' - if you put any sort of "force" into your return throws, that ball is either going wild, or getting on her really quick.

 

[curiousgeorge123]

thanks for the reply....was your soreness in that area?

i'm caught....later in practice i took the catchers and we worked on receiving/blocking with them behind a screen. i was feeling great and letting it rip...not 100% but a good 75% "K" with a step...i felt the tightness then and went back to standard center toss type motion.

when playing catch with my pitcher, i wasn't throwing with as much effort toward her, but she should have been towards me. again she felt great.

 

[Fluid Fastpitch]

If you're feeling tightness afterwards, you're likely not staying relaxed enough in your own motion.

This^
Sounds like you might be muscling a snap. Are you thinking about your wrist at any point during the release? You shouldn't, especially if you're just 'playing catch'.

 

[Fluid Fastpitch]

Generally on this topic, the injuries that I've known about (two degrees of separation) are all in HE pitchers, and unfortunately, are all back issues. Either upper back/shoulder pain from the arm path, and one particularly bad lower back injury in a high school girl from 'slamming the door' for so many years. Career ending. Her coach wanted to blame metal cleats.... smh.

 

[Gags]

I felt it more in my elbow, which probably meant I was doing something wrong as well. The faster I try to throw it, the less follow through I end with - my upper arm sticks to my side more. Less follow-through likely means less pronation, which is (as I understand it) the primary way your body dissipates the force put on your elbow. (I'm sure I botched all sorts of kinesiological terms with that last sentence!). I'm still at the beginning stages - my daughter gets nervous when she sees me trying to throw IR in batting practice.
Tincher's website has a lot of testimonials about pitchers who came in with pain, and now throw pain free. But of course, there's little mention of what exactly was changed in their mechanics that eliminated the pain.

 

[Jay Bolden]

I felt it more in my elbow, which probably meant I was doing something wrong as well. The faster I try to throw it, the less follow through I end with - my upper arm sticks to my side more. Less follow-through likely means less pronation, which is (as I understand it) the primary way your body dissipates the force put on your elbow. (I'm sure I botched all sorts of kinesiological terms with that last sentence!). I'm still at the beginning stages - my daughter gets nervous when she sees me trying to throw IR in batting practice.
Tincher's website has a lot of testimonials about pitchers who came in with pain, and now throw pain free. But of course, there's little mention of what exactly was changed in their mechanics that eliminated the pain.

I'd personally like to see a study that shows injuries of Brush vs. Non Brush I/R pitchers. I can only speak on my own experience. I have had 3 "fluid" pitchers go down. One had major back issues and was in a brace for 8 months. The other had Tommy John, the other had upper shoulder to neck issue and surgery. It has not been from over pitching. 1 was 14u, on pitching rotation with 3 other pitchers (development over wins) Other was 16u (I believe she over worked her self. Gym Rat!) Last one was 16u as well, and had to have surgery on her neck/upper shoulder she believes pitching mechanics. We had a conversation about brush and what is does, and I could see her eyes well up. She had no idea about brush, but understood it could possibly have alleviated some of the shoulder issues,

So to me HE isn't even worth mentioning. I really would like to see the Brush vs No Brush data if its out there. There has to be some validity with it as Sarah Pauly is 37 and still pitching, Cat, Monica, etc. etc.

just my 2cents worth.