HELP! please evaluate my daughters swing

[_MIA_]

That's because the torquing action being demonstrated is not correct.

So if he was in a proper launch position for a given pitch location, would the action on the handle he is demonstrating be correct
in your opinion? I personally think the initial action of the hands on the bat does have a small bit of direction associated with it based
upon pitch location (turn it with direction) so if your issue is with the application of torque only then I would agree you don't do that
in a game swing. However, again, most kids have no issue with directing their hands..it is the torquing part that many miss.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

But then what...

...in order to get the barrel aligned with the lead-arm, and subsequently the ball?

I'm not sure I get the question .... but I'll make a guess.

During the body's alignment that takes place at the start of 'swing launch' the 'upper lead-arm' (humerus) should be worked 'up' (from what was a healthy hand-set orientation) so as to be on plane with the prediction of where impact will be. The 'upper lead-arm' has two ends to it ... one end is connected to the torso, and the other end is connected to the forearm ... and the orientation of the 'upper lead-arm' is a function of both ends. Yes, the torso tilt/orientation plays a large roll in getting the upper lead-arm on plane, but the hand-engine is not zero, and also plays a roll.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

So if he was in a proper launch position for a given pitch location, would the action on the handle he is demonstrating be correct
in your opinion? I personally think the initial action of the hands on the bat does have a small bit of direction associated with it based
upon pitch location (turn it with direction) so if your issue is with the application of torque only then I would agree you don't do that
in a game swing. However, again, most kids have no issue with directing their hands..it is the torquing part that many miss.

I would like to say 'yes' to you Pattar ... but my respect for the sport has me saying 'no'. He has the torquing action incorrect in that demo.

 

[julray]

I would like to say 'yes' to you Pattar ... but my respect for the sport has me saying 'no'. He has the torquing action incorrect in that demo.

I just tossed my hat for ya pattar,

 

[Mudders Brudder]

IMO Matt is leaving out some of the bad advice that TM stumbled over along the way ... for example the late pronation of the lead-arm (showing the non-hairy portion of the lead-arm to the pitcher). In other words ... he's cleaning up the information.

Agreed. Matt does not try to talk about the kinesiology of how one should move certain body parts to perform a particular movement the way Rich does...who then screws those things and himself all up when it then becomes obvious he has no idea wtf he's talking about wrt kinesiology by the words, terms, and descriptions he chooses.

Matt just explains why he does or teaches something w/o trying to explain the how in improper detail(s) that's not even close to what it is he's actually doing the way Rich does. Smart.

 

[Mudders Brudder]

I'm not sure I get the question .... but I'll make a guess.

During the body's alignment that takes place at the start of 'swing launch' the 'upper lead-arm' (humerus) should be worked 'up' (from what was a healthy hand-set orientation) so as to be on plane with the prediction of where impact will be. The 'upper lead-arm' has two ends to it ... one end is connected to the torso, and the other end is connected to the forearm ... and the orientation of the 'upper lead-arm' is a function of both ends. Yes, the torso tilt/orientation plays a large roll in getting the upper lead-arm on plane, but the hand-engine is not zero, and also plays a roll.

I was referring to the "hinge angle" if you will, in that, if you're only using the lead humerus for pitch/plane alignment, where do the hands, as in...

all I have left to do is use my hands ... so I might as well use my hands at 100%.

...ever come into play?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I was referring to the "hinge angle" if you will, in that, if you're only using the lead humerus for pitch/plane alignment, where do the hands, as in......ever come into play?

I don't believe in attempting to 'hold' a hinge angle. I'm perfectly fine with the concept of getting rid of the hinge angle quickly ... at no point in the 'swing' am I 'trying' to hold/maintain a hinge angle (i.e., the angle in the bottom-hand wrist).

The 'when' is more of a key IMO.

The effort of the hands is well prior to impact ... and diminishes towards impact. I believe in the notion of 'releasing' into and through impact. Here we have had mixed discussions on the topic of 'release'. At one point you gave a description of the hands through impact from your 'feel' vantage point that aligned with my notion of 'releasing' into/through impact ... but in later discussions we never got back to that particular point. So I'm not 100% clear on your 'feel' there ... although in one particular post I swear your description was spot on with my particular 'feel'.

 

[FP26]

I don't believe in attempting to 'hold' a hinge angle. I'm perfectly fine with the concept of getting rid of the hinge angle quickly ... at no point in the 'swing' am I 'trying' to hold/maintain a hinge angle (i.e., the angle in the bottom-hand wrist).

The 'when' is more of a key IMO.

The effort of the hands is well prior to impact ... and diminishes towards impact. I believe in the notion of 'releasing' into and through impact. Here we have had mixed discussions on the topic of 'release'. At one point you gave a description of the hands through impact from your 'feel' vantage point that aligned with my notion of 'releasing' into/through impact ... but in later discussions we never got back to that particular point. So I'm not 100% clear on your 'feel' there ... although in one particular post I swear your description was spot on with my particular 'feel'.

Sorry to butt in... I always had some trouble understanding the "release" as well. But then started equating it to the "throwing the bat" drill. I believe some people call it helicoptering. Would the point that one "releases" that bat when purposely trying to throw it be at all similar to the timing of the "release" you are talking about?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Sorry to butt in... I always had some trouble understanding the "release" as well. But then started equating it to the "throwing the bat" drill. I believe some people call it helicoptering. Would the point that one "releases" that bat when purposely trying to throw it be at all similar to the timing of the "release" you are talking about?

For some hitters (not all hitters) the throwing of bats can help gain the feel of 'release'. Then again, some hitters screw this up so bad that I have them stop throwing bats and don't draw the analogy for them.

 

[Mudders Brudder]

I don't believe in attempting to 'hold' a hinge angle. I'm perfectly fine with the concept of getting rid of the hinge angle quickly ... at no point in the 'swing' am I 'trying' to hold/maintain a hinge angle (i.e., the angle in the bottom-hand wrist).

The 'when' is more of a key IMO.

The effort of the hands is well prior to impact ... and diminishes towards impact. I believe in the notion of 'releasing' into and through impact. Here we have had mixed discussions on the topic of 'release'. At one point you gave a description of the hands through impact from your 'feel' vantage point that aligned with my notion of 'releasing' into/through impact ... but in later discussions we never got back to that particular point. So I'm not 100% clear on your 'feel' there ... although in one particular post I swear your description was spot on with my particular 'feel'.

Cool, good discussion.

I look at "release" just as a different term for the old word - I've heard, and used from my youth - "extension"...which IMO is an effect, and not a cause.

Although you say you "don't believe in attempting to 'hold' a hinge angle" when I hear someone use the word "release" wrt the swing, I have to ask..."what" are you holding that you have to "release", and exactly "how" and "when" do you know to release it?

In my mind, I'm swinging/launching the bat with all I've got from the "launch position", and let the force/momentum of the bat take the barrel into the ball, and then into extension or "release") of it.

Now I may try to stop or "check" my launch into the ball, but that's usually for naught because I'm launching/swinging with all I've got, and not metering my "swing" forward with my hands to maybe or maybe not "release" it once my hands have traveled out front to the ball. Just my "take" on it...pun intended.